Visa With 800,000 Baht

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Gaybutton
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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Gaybutton »

Dodger wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:14 pm
open an account with a Thai bank which uses the IAT format.
You're still getting it wrong. A Thai bank doesn't need the IAT format. The IAT format has nothing to do with Thai banks and Thai banks don't even have that.

The IAT format is entirely an American thing and forcing foreign banks with branches in the USA to accept direct deposits only with the IAT format. In order to direct deposit into Bangkok Bank's New York branch, your money source needs to use the IAT format.

I have no idea why you seem to be opposed to using TransferWise, but in my opinion that is the best option of all even if your bank or money source does use the IAT format.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by 2lz2p »

Dodger wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:54 pm
I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that most of the major U.S. banks made the transition to IAT several years ago. All you have to do is search online for this information.
I believe your understanding is wrong because most US banks do not offer the IAT format for their retail customers. My bank, Chase, being one of the largest in the US does not offer that format to its retail customers for doing ACH transfers.

I went to USBank's website - I did note that they mention using ACH for international transfers in their corporate/commercial account information - but no mention was made regarding retail customer accounts. However that doesn't mean they don't also have the IAT format available retail customers. You are also very fortunate as they would be the exception rather than the rule in that regard.

That said, I clicked on USBank's "open an account online" button which then required I enter my zip code (I still have a US address). I inserted my Zip code (Fort Worth, Texas) and got a "sorry" message, they don't offer accounts to that geographical area. Which is probably the reason I had never heard of them before.

Also, as GB notes, the IAT format has nothing to do with Thai banks. The ACH (Automated Clearing House) system is used by US banks, each having an ACH routing number. In Bangkok Bank's case, the ACH system could be used because their New York Branch is chartered in the US and is a member of the ACH system. The ACH requirement for using the International ACH Transfer (IAT) format has been in effect for several years, if the ultimate destination was outside of the USA. This is due to US money laundering laws. Domestic ACH transfers require the receiving bank's ACH routing number and account number. Whereas the IAT format requires additional information which includes the recipients name and address in the foreign country where the funds will be sent. However, Bangkok Bank was ignoring this rule and apparently got caught - thus the reason for now requiring that transfers through the NY Branch be in the IAT format.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Gaybutton »

2lz2p wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:53 pm
This is due to US money laundering laws
I get more than just a little annoyed at being punished for somebody else's crimes. I don't money launder. I don't have enough money to launder even if I wanted to and I believe the great majority, perhaps all, expats living in whatever countries also have nothing to do with money laundering.

Instead of making life miserable for us, how about better detective work to stop money laundering? And if the USA is requiring the IAT format for international bank direct deposits, how about a law requiring all banks and all sources of direct deposits to use the IAT format instead of this nonsense about "Sorry, we don't use the IAT format."? What is so difficult about these sources using the IAT format? What's the hard part?

To me, it's right up there with the embassies refusing to issue income affidavits because despite whatever evidence we provide, it's too difficult for them to verify. BULLSHIT! Tell us what documentation you need, let us obtain it, and start issuing the income affidavits again. Hey embassies, considering how much we were always exorbitantly charged for those affidavits, wouldn't it be worth it?

When politicians talk about helping people who have been left behind, how about helping us expats for a change too? If anyone ends up being left behind, that certainly includes us. The last time I checked, whether we are living on USA soil or not, we're still citizens and still pay taxes just like everybody else (well, almost everybody else. A few choice people and businesses manage to get away with paying little or no taxes at all). While we're at it, let us use the Medicaid we paid into all our lives whether we're on USA soil or not. Just because we're not living on American soil doesn't mean any of us appreciate the idea that what we paid into for our entire careers gets to be used by everybody except us. For some strange reason, that doesn't seem fair to me . . .

Politicians, do you want my vote? Fine. Start giving me something to show for it.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Undaunted »

In the last year Thailand issued 80,000 retirement visas,I suspect at least 30% are using the 800,000 method, as suggested here before if the government freed up that money it would go straight into the economy at a time when the economy needs help.

80,000 X 30% (est.) = 24,000 X 800,000 = 19,200,000,000........not exactly small change :!:
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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Gaybutton »

Undaunted wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:13 pm
I suspect at least 30% are using the 800,000 method, as suggested here before if the government freed up that money it would go straight into the economy at a time when the economy needs help.
I agree and don't be surprised it the actual number turns out to be much higher than 30%.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger »

2lz2p post_id=99797 time=1583578437 user_id=122]
Dodger post_id=99790 time=1583564091 user_id=107]

I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that most of the major U.S. banks made the transition to IAT several years ago. All you have to do is search online for this information.

I believe your understanding is wrong because most US banks do not offer the IAT format for their retail customers. My bank, Chase, being one of the largest in the US does not offer that format to its retail customers for doing ACH transfers.

I went to USBank's website - I did note that they mention using ACH for international transfers in their corporate/commercial account information - but no mention was made regarding retail customer accounts. However that doesn't mean they don't also have the IAT format available retail customers. You are also very fortunate as they would be the exception rather than the rule in that regard.
If the other major banks in America don't use IAT, then I must have just got lucky by having my account with U.S. bank. As mentioned before, I did U.S./Thailand money transfers from my U.S. Bank for +15 years, including the last 2 years after they implemented the new ACH reporting format.

I fully understand that IAT is a home-grown American reporting format. According to one of the bank managers at U.S. Bank/Chicago (a long time friend) we can thank the IRS, and their pressure on NACHA, for IAT. I also understand that receiving banks don't have to have IAT implemented on their end, although do have to have the capabilities to receive money transfers which use the IAT format. Fortunately Kasikorn and Bangkok Bank do. There are probably many others.

If your U.S. bank doesn't use IAT, then you're between a rock and a hard place, and I can see why you're using TransferWire. From what you said earlier, it sounds like TW has fixed the "coding" problem. so you should be good to go.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger »

Gaybutton wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:33 pm
I have no idea why you seem to be opposed to using TransferWise, but in my opinion that is the best option of all even if your bank or money source does use the IAT format.
Below is a cut n' paste to my response to 2Lz2p:

It's not Transferwise that I'm so opposed to, as they seem to provide users with a reliable service with low fees. It's the 800k method that I'm opposed to. I really shouldn't let this bother me, because I don't use it, but I have several friends who do who are already getting tangled up.

As I alluded to earlier, if someone is wealthy and can afford to toss 800k in a separate account just to satisfy Immigration, that's fine. But for those who aren't so fortunate, the 800k method has RISK written all over it. Now, if you're in a position where you have no choice. Meaning, you don't have a way to transfer funds from your home country to prove your +65k income, then that's a different story.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Gaybutton »

Dodger wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:02 am
the 800k method has RISK written all over it.
What would you say the risk is?

I ask because in my opinion the opposite is actually the case. With the 65,000 baht per month method there is no way to be certain what immigration will accept or will continue to accept. If they accept your documentation this year, you can't be sure they will accept it next year. If that happens and you also don't have the 800,000 baht, bye bye retirement visa.

On the other hand, if you do use the 800,000 baht method, the only method that has never changed, and you have complied with their rules about it, you're virtually guaranteed the visa. I don't understand why that is a risk.

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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Undaunted »

Dodger, to your point most retirees I hope would have at least the equivalent of 800,000 somewhere which is generally earning fuck all at today’s interest rates so many expats who are not “wealthy” chose to put it in Thailand and forgo having to justify an income of at least 65,000 a month which I assume most have.
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Re: Visa With 800,000 Baht

Post by Dodger »

Gaybutton wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:27 am
Dodger wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:02 am
the 800k method has RISK written all over it.
What would you say the risk is?
If I were to assess the risk associated with both methods based solely on what may, or may not change in the future, the risk associated with both methods would be exactly equal.

Based on the fact that Thailand has been using (and accepting) the monthly minimum income requirements since Yul Brenner played the role of the King of Siam, it would be logical to assume that this method of qualifying visa applications won't be changing anytime soon.

The 800k method places a retired expat at risk the minute he has to withdraw more money from his 800k account than is permitted by Immigration policy (regardless of the reason). The penalties for doing this are unknown, which then exposes a retiree to being penalized any amount at the discretion of the IO, as well as the possibility of not having their visa extension approved at all.

Honestly, and I'm not just saying this to win a debate, I don't see any risk whatsoever with the 65k method, as long as the person using it can meet the policy requirements. Conversely, the 800k method is HIGH RISK IMO.

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