O-A Visa Insurance Requirement

[Trongpai]

I recently renewed (extended) my O-A Thai retirement visa at Bangkok Immigration and had some problems with the insurance requirements:
https://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa

Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)

This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

I had originally entered Thailand on an O-A Visa (retirement) in 2003 and have been renewing it every year since even though that was two passports ago. I have had Thai insurance that exceeds the minimums since 2003 so I was not worried about this new requirement.

It's important to state if I understand this correctly the insurance requirement does not apply to the O visa. O-A is the visa you get from your home country and the O is what you obtain in Thailand from converting a 90 day visit visa to a long stay O Visa.

I took a complete copy of my Thai Atena policy to Immigration. I would have thought that the plastic insurance card was enough but took everything I was given by Atena including all the contracts. Nope, not good enough for Thai Immigration. They wanted a single separate letter. Call your insurance company and have them send you a letter. No problem except Atena was on lock-down and everyone was working from home but I did get one after lots of calls and hoops in a few days.

Day two at Immigration. I had the letter they asked for but they did not like the format. The requirement is 400,000 and 40,000 and my policy exceeded that. I called the agent at Atena who sent the letter and his reaction was, you have to be kidding. I had Immigration talk to the Atena agent. It was a long conversation. The agent said OK, now I know what they want and the dates of the policy also have to match the date of the O-A Visa. The policy coverage date was one day off and they had to be exact. Another letter will be drafted. The policy date got one day off because of the date/time difference between USA and Thailand when I first obtained the policy 17 years ago.

Day three at Immigration. I had obtained a new letter and this one changed the wording of not less than 400.000 IP and not less than 40.000 OP. It also had to be addressed to Bangkok Immigration rather then to who it may concern. It also had a statement that I was covered for Covid-19. There were three different insurance executives who had signed the letter but I don't know if Immigration wanted all that but this letter seemed to make them happy. They never looked at the actual policy.

At first Immigration said Atena was not one of the 14 approved Thai insurance company and they waved around two loose pages with 1-14 companies listed. I looked at the paper and Atena was listed as number 10, it was not in alphabetic order. I pointed number ten out and just got a curt, OK.

Then they questioned my Bank letter showing a balance of over 800,000. This is the wrong letter they said. It was the same letter format I used last year and the year before. OK, they would it it pass this time but next time get a "balance sheet letter" I got the feeling this was pay back for pointing out they were wrong about Atena not being one of the approved insurance companies.

I don't know if having specific COVID 19 insurance coverage is required. I heard the Immigration officer say COVID 19 several times to the Atena agent and it was specifically referenced in my certificate letter but is this a new requirement, I don't know.

So, it took three trips to Immigration to finally get my renewal (one year extension) but on the up side there were few people at Immigration. Usually it packed to the rafters with immigrants. Even though there were few applicants and a good amount of officials they seemed to be laboriously moving slow. Job security I guess.

This is my personal experience at Bangkok Immigration between May 19-22, 2020. Pattaya could be quite a different experience. Even on other date in Bangkok it could be a different experience.

All of the renewal stamps in my present passport refer to the extension as non-O and not an O-A. The only reference to it being an O-A is on page one when the stamps were transferred to a new passport 9 years ago. I was not sure I was an O-A or an O but as I said before I already had Thai Insurance and was not concerned.

Of course having an O non Immigration visa avoids the insurance requirements, for now.

[2lz2p]

The Pattaya City Expats Club has this information on their Immigration Update page linked from their weekly Newsletter on the subject of doing an annual extension at Jomtien Immigration:

EXTENSION OF STAY FOR HOLDERS OF NON-IMMIGRANT O-A VISA –HEALTH INSURANCE
We have received a report (May 2020) from a person renewing their extension at Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration based on their underlying Non-Immigrant “O-A”Visa on health insurance requirement. His health insurance policy was from one of the Thai companies listed on the TGIA website (URL: https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa). His insurance company furnished him with the Insurance Certificate shown on the TGIA website (URL: https://longstay.tgia.org/document/over ... ficate.pdf). He had to modify his policy so that his coverage coincided with his Immigration Extension Renewal Date. [Note: There is no requirement for health insurance if your retirement extension is based on an underlying Non-Immigrant “O” Visa]

[Trongpai]

The second certificate letter I obtained from Atena did not look like that:https://longstay.tgia.org/document/over ... ficate.pdf but was very similar and had the same language of "not less then 400,000...
It was on Atena letter head.

Immigration seems to be looking for those two trigger numbers, 400,000 and 40,000.

It may take some time for the Insurance companies to know the format of the certificate that Immigration wants and just when they get it all down to a tee Immigration will change something.

Side note about Bangkok Immigration Div 1. When I was there they had turned off the air conditioning. You have to wait in the main hall of the building with 6m social distancing seating. It was hot. My face mask was soaked with sweat. No fans. Food courts downstairs are open but one to a table 6M apart.

[Gaybutton]

Sounds like you were dealing with the wrong immigration officer to me, Trongpai. I'm wondering whether some of those hoops you had to jump through were really a matter of policy or yet another example of finding yourself at the mercy of the officer's whim.

That miserable experience makes it obvious that if anybody wants to retire in Thailand, don't get the O-A visa. Wait until you are in Thailand and get the O visa. It also is a perfect example of why it is best to renew as early as possible, so that if there are unexpected problems, such as Trongpai went through, you'll have time to do whatever you have to do to comply. In most cases a person can renew a month in advance of the visa's actual expiration date.

What you want to make sure never happens is your visa expires while you are still jumping through the hoops. I don't know exactly what the consequence would be, and I damned sure don't want to find out the hard way.

I just renewed my own Type O visa a couple weeks ago at Pattaya immigration. I was in and out in less than 10 minutes - and they did have the air conditioning turned on.

To this day I still have never understood why they make such a distinction between the type O and type O-A visa, especially since they are each essentially for the same thing. If there is any logic to it, it goes beyond me.

Oh well, at least they let us retire here at all. But they sure don't mind putting many of us through hell when it comes time to renew. And now with all the "new normals" it's anybody's guess what the next set of changes they decide to throw at us will be.

[2lz2p]

To this day I still have never understood why they make such a distinction between the type O and type O-A visa, especially since they are each essentially for the same thing. If there is any logic to it, it goes beyond me.

Oh well, at least they let us retire here at all. But they sure don't mind putting many of us through hell when it comes time to renew. And now with all the "new normals" it's anybody's guess what the next set of changes they decide to throw at us will be.

The distinction is that the Category O-A Visa is only for purpose of retirement, can be obtained only in the applicant's country of residence, is valid for one year for multiple entries (coded "M"), and allows a one year permission to stay when entering Thailand [it also allows one when using the 800k to have it on deposit in other than a Thai bank and during its one year validity period, one can leave & return without needing a Re-Entry Permit, receiving another full year permission to stay]. They have been in existence for at least the last 20 years and were a good deal for those wanting to retire in Thailand - that is until they recently added health insurance as a requirement for the Visa.

The Category O (for "Other") covers purposes that are not for Tourism or covered under another Non-Immigrant Visa Category, e.g. "B" for business, "Ed" for education, etc. Retirement is only one of the purposes covered by Category "O"- being married or related to a Thai is another - without looking it up, if I recall correctly working for a charity (paid or volunteer) is another one. Upon entry, the holder receives only a 90 say permission to stay which is the same period for most categories of Non-Immigrant Visas. The 90 days can be extended up to one year in most cases for all categories. However, although "retirement" is a permitted purpose, some Thai Embassies/Consulates will not issue one for that purpose if they also issue the category "O-A", e.g. USA.

Since Immigration cannot issue an "O-A" category Visa, they will issue a retiree an "O" category good for a 90 day permission to stay that can then be extended for a full year - usually 30 days before the initial 90 days is finished. Thus, one wishing to retire in Thailand and not be required to get health insurance, the category "O" can be obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate, e.g. usually obtained in a neighboring country OR from Thai Immigration within Thailand.

In my case, when I inquired about getting a multiple entry Non-Immigrant "O" Visa from the Thai Embassy in Washington DC as I was considering retiring in Thailand, but wanted to try living here first. They said "No" and told me to apply for the one year "retirement" Visa (requiring financials, medical certificate, police clearance, etc.).

So I contacted the Thai Honorary Consul in Dallas, Texas, and received the Non-"O" multiple entry with no documentation required to support the application. Honorary Consuls were notorious for being very lax on wanting supporting documentation. Which no doubt was the reason their authority to issue Non-Immigrant O multiple entry visas was taken away from them a few years later.

I rec'd a 90 day permission to stay, visited a friend in Vietnam in the interim and rec'd another 90 day permission to stay on return. When that 90 days was almost up my plans were to stay another 60 days before returning to USA. So, I did a border run to Cambodia getting another 90 days - returned to USA for a couple of months to settle my "affairs" and returned getting another 90 day stay. Shortly thereafter, I applied for the one year extension and have been renewing it ever since.

I will be applying for my next renewal this month as it is due on July 11 - and as GB suggests, do it early in case of any problems - although I have not had any other than my first application for extension back in 2003 - usually taking about 5 to 10 minutes (not counting waiting in queue, which has never been longer than 20 minutes). However, there was a "bump" last year as I use the 65k monthly income method and it was the first time I couldn't use the Embassy Certificate. That bump consisted of having to get a letter from my Bangkok Bank branch listing foreign deposits for the preceding 12 months as my "certified" bank statements for the period were not acceptable. Even then, the Immigration Officer was very helpful, provided me with a sample letter to show the bank, and advised me to get it from the bank where I opened the account as other branches could not provide it for more than a 6 month period. So, I had to make a trip to my bank branch to get the letter - once I provided it, no problem, extension granted.

[Trongpai]

I opted to use the over 800,000 in the bank method as it seems easier. I updated the bank book on the day of the visa application and copied the face page and last page along with a certification letter from the bank. The same as I did last year and the year before. Nope, not enough. The officer made me get a copy of the entire bank book. This is not the account I use for every day expenses. The last page of the bank book goes back a few years. I try to keep it simple for immigration showing my balance without a lot of small expenditures.

This simple method raised some eyebrows. You hardly ever take any money out of this account? I have other accounts. That's strange she said but OK, I guess.

There's no bank balance reexamining later to see that you're not going below the minimum balance so perhaps the bank book balance history is examined to determine that.

The draw a map silliness to where you live has returned. I had printed out a photo capture of google maps showing where I live and that was rejected. They wanted me to hand draw draw a map on a white paper.

They create a mountain of paper and every few hours someone with a hand truck comes and takes it all away. It's a ritual. At a Wat in Bangkok you line up and give 100B to them and your given two carefully prepared receipts. One you past to a wooden coffin and when the spaces are all full they scrape them off and trash them all. The second one you take to an urn and set it on fire. Rituals.

[Gaybutton]

advised me to get it from the bank where I opened the account as other branches could not provide it for more than a 6 month period.

I wonder if getting the visa, waiting 6 months, getting the bank statement, then getting a second 6 months statement just before applying to extend the visa would work.

For me, it's been so long I don't even remember where I originally opened my account, although any bank branch could probably tell me where that was.

If I'm still among the living when my visa comes due again, I'm thinking very seriously of using the 65,000 baht method. I've seen nothing to indicate they are going to change the requirements and I'm tired of having 800,000 baht just sitting there in the Thai bank account.

I am guessing if the requirements ever do change, it would be more likely they would increase the 65,000 baht per month minimum rather than forcing people to keep 800,000 baht just sitting there. It's a risk I've so far been unwilling to take, but I can think of a lot better things to do with 800,000 baht than having it just sit there. I'm tired of having the equivalent of over US$ 25000 useless to me for anything other than getting the visa extension when I can easily prove the 65,000 baht minimum or probably whatever minimum they might change to.

I'm beginning to think Dodger was the one who was right about that all along.

There's no bank balance reexamining later to see that your not going below the minimum balance so perhaps the bank book balance history is examined to determine that.

The draw a map silliness to where you live has returned.

Another example of different immigration offices just making up their own rules. Your rules are imposed by the Bangkok immigration office. Mine are imposed by the Pattaya immigration office and the rules for me were precisely opposite of the rules for you. I do have to return 3 months after getting the extension with an updated bank passbook to prove I did not let my balance fall below 800,000 baht and there was no requirement to draw a map.