Yet Another Immigration Question

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fountainhall

Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Post by fountainhall »

Having spoken to a lawyer in the UK, there may be a more specific reason for the new regulations put into effect by the British Consulate other than sheer bloodymindedness.

In May the EU passed into law for all member countries a new framework for data protection laws. Its acronym is GDPR. Almost immediately the UK government adopted a new Data Protection Act to replace one in existence since 1998. Apparently this caused a lot of public outcry despite the intent being that companies/governments become much more strict about the way they handle and store data on individuals. If a businesses or the government does not comply with the new regulations, there are very substantial fines of up to £20 million. Although there is a two year period to fully implement and get their systems ready, many major organisations have already started.

One aspect of the new law is that there is now a very clear responsibility for organisations to obtain the consent of people they collect information about. One concern of the UK Foreign Office could naturally be that it may in future be in possession of certain information on individuals that may be out of date or even inaccurate irrespective of how it was obtained. Understandably this could then open up a can of worms that could lead to some form of legal action.

Although the above is merely one lawyer's suggestion for the policy change, it provides at least a plausible explanation as to why and when the British Consulate might have acted as it did. I provide it merely for information.
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Gaybutton
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Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

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I'll agree with Undaunted about one thing - we are busy bantering around about hypotheticals.

What do we really know? All we actually know is the UK embassy is going to stop issuing proof-of-income statements (or whatever they all it) in December.

Outside of that, we know nothing.

I do, however, think it is prudent to anticipate logical and realistic possibilities and be ready for them if indeed they do happen.

I'll repeat something I've already posted. I go to immigration to renew my retirement visa at least two weeks before it will expire, just in case there are additional hoops to jump through that I didn't know about. Two weeks or more should be plenty of time to comply with whatever immigration wants. Even if we get reliable information telling us exactly what immigration wants, I'll still go at least two weeks early. I don't think many here need me to remind how many times we thought we knew what they want, only to walk in and find out there have yet again been recent requirement changes.
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Undaunted
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Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Post by Undaunted »

I can't imagine why immigration would at this time have any new info. The only real decision has come from the British embassy, stating it will no longer verify its citizens incomes......Thai immigration has not changed anything.....

The individual embassies will decide what they will and will not do, so if other embassies stop verifying expat incomes, then it is time to ask Thai immigration what you need to show them for proof of income....

I do suspect at some time they will require an active Thai bank acct. at least 3 months old with a balance not dropping below 800,000 baht. This would prove you had a vested interest to remain the kingdom.
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Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

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Undaunted wrote:I can't imagine why immigration would at this time have any new info. The only real decision has come from the British embassy, stating it will no longer verify its citizens incomes.

if other embassies stop verifying expat incomes, then it is time to ask Thai immigration what you need to show them for proof of income
Considering we're only weeks away from the UK embassy halting the income statements, isn't that exactly why immigration should already be able to tell UK citizens what they can show to provide acceptable proof of income?

If I were a UK citizen trying to live in Thailand under proof of income, rather than the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, I'd be trying to find out right now.

If any of you from the UK do find out, please let us know what immigration will require you to show.
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Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Post by Undaunted »

Gaybutton wrote: If I were a UK citizen trying to live in Thailand under proof of income, rather than the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, I'd be trying to find out right now.

If any of you from the UK do find out, please let us know what immigration will require you to show.
I totally agree this will set the standard for any other group of expats whose embassy stops certification of income.
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fountainhall

Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Post by fountainhall »

Granted we are in the realm of speculation. But there is one key issue I cannot grasp. How is any retiree from the US or the UK going to show Immigration proof that they WILL HAVE 65,000 coming in every month? I have read on another forum about income tax statements and info from foreign accounts. But of what use to Thai Immigration officials is that going to be when few can speak any English let alone read it sufficiently to decipher a foreign bank statement. In any case, I assume and documentation has to be in Thai!

For those living here already, a payment of 65,000+ per month into the bank book over the preceding 12 months presumably is proof enough. But what of new retirees who have only been here a month or two and were planning to convert to retirement visas once here? Unless they opened a bank account 10-12 months earlier, they can not show that proof. And how many will actually have done that? If not, then as far as I am aware, it is not possible to remain In Thailand for 12 consecutive months. It would therefore seem to me that probably the only other way to get that retirement visa is to apply in one’s home country and obtain it in advance.

That is how I did it, but only because I had been given totally innacurate info by a so-called lawyer here - an expat! The benefit is that tax returns, income statements, investment accounts and so on are all verified by Thai consular officials who are indeed able to read such details without the requirement for any translation. The major difference is that you need a police report. Assuming that is clean, the process is simple, if time consuming.

Using that route, your first ‘year’ is effectively two years and so it becomes a simple matter to deposit the required monthly amount into the account. Immigration then has proof when you eventually apply for your year’s extension.
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Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

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fountainhall wrote:How is any retiree from the US or the UK going to show Immigration proof that they WILL HAVE 65,000 coming in every month?
The answer is probably different for everyone, but in my particular case my retirement source provides, upon request, a statement showing how much my monthly retirement benefit is, including gross and net. If immigration authorities have any reason to doubt the veracity, it's a simple matter for them to check, which they can do online.

If a retiree cannot obtain the retirement visa in his home country before coming to Thailand, what he might be able to do is come to Thailand on a tourist visa, establish a Thai bank account (which may be difficult to do now), and have money transferred into the account for a few months before applying for the retirement visa.

The embassies are saying they are negotiating with Thai immigration authorities about how people can prove their income after they cease issuing proof-of-income statements. Maybe whatever they come up with will be fairly easy to do and easy enough to do for new retirees. Let's hope so, anyway.

I don't think Thai immigration is looking for ironclad proof that would hold up in a courtroom and are not trying to make it overly difficult for people retiring in Thailand legitimately, obeying the rules, but they want at least enough convincing evidence that an applicant really can meet the minimum requirements.

That is why I have only minimal sympathy for people who have been living in Thailand by lying and cheating about their income. If people were honest about it, this problem probably wouldn't even exist. But as much as I blame the people who have been lying, I also blame the embassies for making it so easy for people to do. Obviously Thailand is fed up with it and as a result it's causing consequences for everyone, including those who have been honest about it all along.

What it amounts to, I believe, is Thailand wants people with money enough to support themselves to retire in Thailand. It's "If you've got the money, welcome to Thailand."
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Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Post by Undaunted »

[quote="Gaybutton"} What it amounts to, I believe, is Thailand wants people with money enough to support themselves to retire in Thailand. It's "If you've got the money, welcome to Thailand."[/quote]
Unless you are the Chinese sacred cows!
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fountainhall

Re: Yet Another Immigration Question

Post by fountainhall »

Undaunted wrote:Unless you are the Chinese sacred cows!
I’d be pretty certain these sacred cows have more cash stashed away than a good many western retirees!

Gaybutton wrote:If a retiree cannot obtain the retirement visa in his home country before coming to Thailand, what he might be able to do is come to Thailand on a tourist visa, establish a Thai bank account (which may be difficult to do now), and have money transferred into the account for a few months before applying for the retirement visa.
I suppose the next question would be - does a few months with 65,000 in the account monthly qualify when it would seem the authorities will want to see this for a year?

Rhetorical question, I know - because we don’t!
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