Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

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gerefan
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#21 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by gerefan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:53 am

Everyone who is in prison is a volunteer. End of story.

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#22 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by Captain Kirk » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:37 am

windwalker wrote:It is gratifying to know there are so many law-abiding citizens that have done nothing which could have resulted in imprisonment. If you had served time, no matter how good the prison, you would not be singing the same tune.
The question is "do you have sympathy with the guy". It's nothing to do with me or anyone else being law abiding. I see no reason to sympathise with someone who sells drugs and gets caught. In his position I wouldn't expect anyone to sympathise with me as I won't with him. Not that he was asking for that anyway. he was just giving his story of what happened, how it came about. Possibly some is exaggerated, but even if it was I wouldn't be surprised if the telly folks told him to hype it up a bit.

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#23 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by Dodger » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:59 am

Having sympathy or not having sympathy for a person who commits a crime is one matter. Having sympathy for a person who is forced to endure excessive suffering because of immoral and/or inhumane treatment during their incarceration is another matter.

Prisons in Thailand have exactly the same legal procedures outlining the care and treatment of its prisoners as we have in the West. When these procedures are followed a prisoner (any prisoner) is granted the right to be fed daily, have a place to sleep, permitted daily exercise (although limited) and to receive medical treatment when needed. Nowhere in these legal procedures does it allow for any prisoner to be tortured mentally or physically, or to be restricted of food, a place to sleep, or medical care when needed.

I have no sympathy for those who knowingly commit crimes and get their fair punishment. Not only is this what they deserve but it keeps society safe as well. What I don't support are prisoners being treated immorally or inhumanely during their incarceration. Prisons that permit this type of treatment are guilty of committing crimes themselves, although rarely called on the carpet because of this.

If you think for a minute that it's OK for a prisoner to be abused during their incarceration then there's only a fine line that separates you from the criminal himself because "not caring what happens" is what criminals are made of.

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#24 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by windwalker » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:56 am

Good post, Dodger.

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#25 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by fountainhall » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:21 pm

windwalker wrote:What's the difference between buyer and seller? If one is guilty so is the other.
The two most addictive drugs, alcohol and cigarettes are both legal to buy and use.
Interesting points. Yes, cigarettes and alcohol can be addictive. My father was a heavy smoker all his life. It was considerably shortened by that addiction. Early in my career I worked in an organisation where drinking was almost part of the culture. I can never forget a brilliant and successful man whose life ended, also too short, as a down-and-out drunk on the streets of London. But I do not agree they are generally more addictive than drugs.

The obvious difference as you pointed out is that two are legal and therefore their sale is controlled, albeit loosely. Drugs are illegal which means their sale cannot be controlled. At the very least you can argue that cigarettes and alcohol bring huge tax benefits to governments, some of which might help fund health services for the nation. Drugs do not.

You can prevent most minors from access to alcohol and cigarettes. I think parental control now plays play a much more major role in this regard that in my early years. But you cannot prevent anyone from access to drugs as long as they are uncontrolled. Endless "wars on drugs" have been started and claimed to be successful - including one here during Thaksin's first administration. That is all lies.

There is, I contend, a very substantial difference between the buyer and seller of drugs. The seller is ruthless. He is perfectly well aware that there is a huge demand for his product. He is perfectly well aware of its effect on individuals. But as more sellers enter the 'business' that demand has to increase. If not, his job - and further up the chain, perhaps even his life - may well be in jeopardy. So the network involved in the sale of drugs has to go out and ensure that yet more get hooked on the habit. It is this insidious chain that differentiates between drugs on the one hand and cigarettes and alcohol on the other.

Then there is the almost inevitable escalation in amount and degree of drugs which those hooked on the habit must endure. My father smoked about 60 cigarettes a day. Over the 20 or so years I knew him, it was always 60 - a constant three packs, rarely more. He also liked his whisky. But the two glasses with soda he enjoyed after dinner were a constant. They never to my knowledge became four, five or more.

Some users of lesser drugs seem able to have some control over their habit. Once the ‘highs’ begin to wear off, a vast number seek out harder drugs. And here is another difference. Those hooked on alcohol and cigarettes tend to come from a broad spectrum of society. A greater number of drug users come from more economically disadvantaged backgrounds. They are hunted like prey because the 'lift' they get from the drugs momentarily takes them out of the drudgery of their daily lives. As they become hooked, they can no longer finance their addiction and so turn to various forms of crime. How many times do we hear of drug mules being captured, those mostly poor folk whose vision of a brighter future is blind to the penalties they will almost inevitably face? The kingpins and their henchmen get away mostly scot-free. Here again it is rare to hear of crimes being committed by individuals to finance alcohol or cigarette addiction.

So, yes, there are marked differences between the three forms of addiction. And no, being a drug user bears little resemblance – in most cases – to a being drug seller. In the matter of the sale of drugs, only the latter is guilty.

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#26 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by Dodger » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:56 pm

fountainhall wrote:There is, I contend, a very substantial difference between the buyer and seller of drugs
With all due respect, buyers and sellers of drugs are almost always one in the same. Whoever is holding a stash one day becomes the "seller" and those around him become the "buyers". The very next day one of the "buyers" makes a larger score and becomes the "seller"...and around-and-around it goes.

Most (not all) dealers sell drugs primarily to support their own drug addiction.

In Thailand possession of an illegal substance and/or testing positive for an illegal substance is serious and commonly results in a large fine and/or a 6 month to 1 year prison term, but possession with the intent to sell can result in a prison sentence anywhere between 3 and 30 years depending on which way the wind was blowing in the court room that day. Over 5 tabs or hits (yaba, ice, crystal, etc.) is the dividing line between being legally categorized as a Buyer or Seller For the person being convicted it all comes down to what hat he was wearing that day (Buyer or Seller) and how many tabs he had in his pocket when caught.

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#27 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by Gaybutton » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:25 pm

Dodger wrote:possession with the intent to sell can result in a prison sentence anywhere between 3 and 30 years
It can be much more than that, depending on the severity of the crime. Although rare to be imposed and even more rare to be carried out, every so often I read about Thai criminals, including major drug criminals, being given the death sentence.

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#28 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by windwalker » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:39 pm

Dodger wrote: With all due respect, buyers and sellers of drugs are almost always one in the same. Whoever is holding a stash one day becomes the "seller" and those around him become the "buyers". The very next day one of the "buyers" makes a larger score and becomes the "seller"...and around-and-around it goes.

Tell it like it is, Dodger.

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#29 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by fountainhall » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:40 pm

Dodger wrote:Most (not all) dealers sell drugs primarily to support their own drug addiction.
I can neither agree nor disagree as I have no personal experience. I assume Dodger knows more on the subject and defer to that - up to a point!!

I have seen a number of articles by professors, former cops and others who seem to know more than a little about the drug trade. These indicate that far from all dealers sell to support their own habit. Who deals and why they deal has no simple answer.
What Does a Drug Dealer Look Like?

A drug dealer is an individual who sells drugs, of any type or quantity, illegally. They can be small-time dealers who sell small quantities to offset the costs of their own drug use, or they can be highly organized groups and businessmen within high-organized operations that run like a serious business.

Traditionally, drug dealers are seen as a key part of the problem of addiction in our communities, and there is often a lot of overlap with "pushing" controlled drugs such as marijuana, heroin, meth, and cocaine. Although this is the case with some drug dealers, in reality, there is a lot of variability among drug dealers, the types of drugs they sell, the reasons they sell, and who they sell drugs to . . .

The stereotype of a drug dealer is often someone who is uneducated, cruel and perhaps heavily tattooed or has a well-known criminal record. But drug dealers like that are often an anomaly; instead, drug dealers live and work right alongside law-abiding people.

They may have a regular day-job, a stable home, and a loving family. Some don't even do drugs themselves and solely are in the business for the significant profits they can make. In a survey done of known drug-dealers, more than 75% of them had a full-time job with reputable companies. Many of them did very skilled jobs and had prestigious titles
https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a- ... aler-22267

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#30 Re: Do you have sympathy for this man? I have none at all.

Post by Gaybutton » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:55 pm

Let's please stick to the subject. The topic is about whether people have sympathy for this man. Figuring out how to identify a drug dealer is or whether drug dealers are their own best customers - those are subjects for the "Everything Else" forum.

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