Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

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firecat69

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by firecat69 »

Dodger wrote:I think it has much more to do with cheap flights, cheap hotels, cheap meals, cheap medical care (if needed), and of course cheap sex.
I don't agree with much of that. First of all at least 40% of Americans have never held a passport. And the only reason it is that low is because things changed and you needed a passport to travel to Canada or Mexico. My guess it is closer to 80% or more who have never travelled to Europe, Asia, South America etc etc etc. Cheap flights are for retired people or those who are independently wealthy. The vast majority of people who fly for leisure in the US travel during Thanksgiving , Xmas etc when fares are the highest .

One of the problems in America is that Globalization has hurt large pockets of the US where people own homes and worked in , steel, coal, timber etc etc and find it hard to pick up and move thousands of miles where there might be better job opportunities . Their homes are unsaleable and thus they have no money to start over.

Programs should have been made by the Government to help people move to where the jobs are , Unfortunately they have not been made available in most cases. Interesting you mentioned Tennessee . More people moved from foreign countries ,to South Carolina , Tennessee , Alabama etc for auto plant jobs than people from say West Virginia home of a dying coal industry.
Jun

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by Jun »

fountainhall wrote: Having lived overseas for three weeks short of 40 years, after 20 years I was stripped of my vote. I don't know why.
Please don't take this personally, since you are clearly the kind of widely read and informed person who should be voting.

I do kind of see logic why long term non-residents shouldn't get the vote, since they don't have much stake in the economy. However, if you have paid NI (tax by another name), obviously some pension entitlement is built up, which certainly could be considered as a stake.

Incidentally, it is very unfair that there is no inflation indexation of pensions for people living in many overseas countries.

Then anyone who moves to the UK from the EU or the commonwealth is entitled to vote. Personally, I think that should only be the case after 5 years or so.
fountainhall

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by fountainhall »

You make a fair point. As you say, having paid taxes for a few years and into the National Insurance system for the full term, I believe I do have a stake in the UK economy, albeit a tiny one. But I cannot agree with your implication that only those contributing to the economy should have the right to vote. If I was living somewhere in Britain on welfare and therefore not contributing but actually being a burden on the state, I'd still have a vote! I believe anyone who is British by birth and holds citizenship should have the right to vote at all times wherever they are based.

Obviously I agree that the basic pension being frozen as soon as it starts to be drawn done is not just idiotic, it is a penalty on those living overseas. We place zero burden on the UK economy whereas many pensioners in the UK are unquestionably a much greater burden. But it is not only the paltry State pension. I no longer have a right to treatment under the National Health Service, despite being a UK citizen and having paid in to the Fund for the full term. If I am in the UK I am treated like any other foreigner (which means I'll get NHS treatment only in emergencies). If I want the full range of NHS services I have to return to the UK for a minimum of 6 months a year. As with being stripped of the vote, at no time did any government department advise me this would be the case! (Mind you, it probably wold not have made the slightest difference to how I made my career!)
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Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

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fountainhall wrote:You make a fair point. As you say, having paid taxes for a few years and into the National Insurance system for the full term, I believe I do have a stake in the UK economy, albeit a tiny one.
Even if you have no stake whatsoever in the economy, there are so many more issues besides economy. In my opinion, if you have paid your taxes all your life and still continue to do so, then you've bought your ticket and should not be deprived of a right to vote. Living overseas does not mean you no longer have a stake in your country or are not up on the issues, especially in this day and age of cyberspace.

The way I see it, if you are deprived of your right to vote, no matter what country you come from, then the country should be deprived of its right to levy taxes upon you. No chance of that ever happening, but that's the way I think it ought to be.
Daniel

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by Daniel »

Fountainhall, I agree with the thrust of your post, but nothing is black and white. Firstly, the idea that expats are not a ‘burden on the state’ is not entirely true. Many expats return to the UK for medical treatment to which they are not entitled. This costs the UK taxpayer an estimated £95 million a year. There are also the many cases of expats who sell their UK property, emigrate, and when the money is gone, return to the UK expecting the taxpayer to cover their rent. I can’t find figures for the cost to taxpayers of ‘skint returners’, but we all have anecdotal evidence of that. Also, those on benefits in the UK, whether through unemployment, ill-health, or retirement, plough that money back into the economy.
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Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

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Daniel wrote:Many expats return to the UK for medical treatment to which they are not entitled.
Being an American, I don't know how things work in the UK, but if UK expats are still paying the same taxes as residents pay, why would they not be entitled to the same benefits they would have if they were still living in-country?

I can understand the part about taxpayers having to pay rent for a returning expat. There does seem to be an inherent unfairness about that, but why should they be deprived of medical benefits?

Of course, there is one benefit all UK citizens have, whether they are residents or not. You're not stuck with Trump . . .
fountainhall

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by fountainhall »

I need to clarify one issue. Once I moved overseas, I paid no taxes on my overseas income. Unlike Americans, UK citizens living abroad are considered non-resident for tax purposes if they do not return to the UK apart from a few weeks a year. I therefore understand the view of some people who suggest that we should not maintain the right to vote - even though I do not agree with it.

What I paid into for 40 years was the UK's Social Security system which I have always known as the National Insurance programme. I did that for two reasons - 1. to maintain my right to the basic state pension; and 2. to maintain my right to treatment under the National Health Service. Both were rights when I departed the UK 40 years ago. The latter was stripped from citizens living overseas without any government department providing notification.
Daniel wrote:the idea that expats are not a ‘burden on the state’ is not entirely true. Many expats return to the UK for medical treatment to which they are not entitled. This costs the UK taxpayer an estimated £95 million a year.
Fair point. But I DID pay into the National Insurance programme, I have a valid national Insurance number and that information can be proved within minutes by any health professional. When I moved abroad, I could easily have opted out of the NHS system. Instead I elected to continue contributing many thousands of pounds over the next 30 years. So why is it that I should be denied treatment? With respect, your argument is rather similar to the present Immigration debate about the Bt. 800,000 route for retirees. The rationale is to weed out the crooks. But why an overarching programme that weeds out the good with the bad? The basic UK pension is peanuts. NHS treatment is much more valuable for me. But 40 years of payments seemingly means nothing to the UK government.
Daniel wrote:There are also the many cases of expats who sell their UK property, emigrate, and when the money is gone, return to the UK expecting the taxpayer to cover their rent. I can’t find figures for the cost to taxpayers of ‘skint returners’, but we all have anecdotal evidence of that. Also, those on benefits in the UK, whether through unemployment, ill-health, or retirement, plough that money back into the economy.
I have never heard of this but accept your comment. I also have no property in the UK. But the implication of your last sentence is yet again that only those actually contributing to the UK economy should benefit from their citizenship and have a right to vote. I just cannot agree with that at all!
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Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

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fountainhall wrote:I need to clarify one issue. Once I moved overseas, I paid no taxes on my overseas income. Unlike Americans, UK citizens living abroad are considered non-resident for tax purposes
If it was like that for Americans, why do I think many more Americans would be retiring outside of the USA?

In the USA we have a saying: "The only guarantees are death and taxes."

That's for sure! Despite being retired I lose hundreds of dollars each month in taxes - and I only get a fractional pittance of it back in tax refunds. That will continue as long as I live - maybe even beyond that. When they say, "You can't take it with you," of course you can't. It ends up in taxes . . .

Even if an American renounces his citizenship, that doesn't make any difference to IRS. As far as IRS is concerned, you still have to pay taxes. IRS is the only entity that can take money from a pension benefit. Even if you lose a lawsuit, the victor cannot collect from your retirement benefit. But if you owe IRS, one way or another, believe me, they'll get it.

Social Security deducts monthly for Medicare Part B, which I don't need but am afraid to cancel. With my kind of "Murphy's Law" luck, if I ever cancel it, that's when I'll need it.

I wouldn't mind the taxes so much if so much of it wasn't going toward bullshit that only serves to further enrich people who are already super rich. Sorry, but the super rich will just have to live without an ostrich coat. And I definitely don't want even one cent of my taxes going toward Trump's wall, but there's not a whole lot I can do about it. Come to think of it, I don't want any of my tax money going to anything Trump supports.

The only thing I can do about Trump is cast my vote in the 2020 election for somebody, anybody, other than Trump.
Daniel

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by Daniel »

fountainhall wrote:The latter was stripped from citizens living overseas without any government department providing notification . . . But the implication of your last sentence is yet again that only those actually contributing to the UK economy should benefit from their citizenship and have a right to vote. I just cannot agree with that at all!
I'm not taking a stance. The point of my post was demonstrate that the situation isn't black and white. To me, the issue of expats receiving free NHS treatment and having the right to vote in UK elections is a grey area. I can see arguments for and against. If had to give an opinion, I would say it depends on the individual circumstances. Perhaps rules with more exceptions is the solution.
fountainhall

Re: Why Americans are Flocking to Asia

Post by fountainhall »

I accept your point of view. Mine is very clear.

1. Right to vote. I believe every British citizen in good standing has the automatic right to vote irrespective of where he lives. That right is totally independent of any economic or other issues.

2. National Health Service. I do not believe this should be an automatic right. The NHS is partly paid for by contributions from citizens which are either deducted from wages and salaries or paid voluntarily (as in my case). It is also - for the time being - available to other EU citizens on the basis of reciprocity. Fair enough. But for it to be available to a vast umber of recent immigrants and tourists who have paid nothing and yet denied to citizens who, despite living outside the country, have paid their contributions in full, then something is clearly very wrong.
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