More retirement visa problems - maybe

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Gaybutton
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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:26 pm

Received the following from Travelerjim:

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:54 am

Dodger wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:33 am
The 800K in the bank and 65k/month deposit methods seem clear
I'm going to use the 65,000 baht per month method, assuming they will accept what I show them. But I am also going to keep that 800,000 baht in my Thai bank account even if I have no problem about the 65,000 baht method because who knows what they will or will not accept next year? There are no engraved in stone rules yet.

I won't feel totally secure until there is a clear standard and it becomes a matter of law.
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EDIT: Damn! The post is showing the wrong time and should have appeared after Dodger's post below. I posted it at 9:54am, Thailand time. I thought that problem had been resolved. WRONG!

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by 2lz2p » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:15 am

I posted this after Dodger's message, but it appears before his message.

Based on the latest I have heard (third hand, so cannot attest as to its reliability) is that Pattaya Immigration in Jomtien are refusing to accept any application using the Combination method. I agree it is most likely because they do not want to deal with the arithmetic, which seems to require that they calculate for each month (the amount deposited that month x 12 months plus balance => 800,000). But even if they did accept the combo method, it seems clear from the new rule that they would reject any application where the balance fell below 400,000 baht in any month.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Dodger » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:33 am

Thanks to Travelerjim for providing this update.

The 800K in the bank and 65k/month deposit methods seem clear and the information posted above does not contradict anything we've been hearing up till now. The lack of clarity regarding the "Combination Method" will continue to cause frustration and confusion.

I have felt all along that the Immigration staff would not take on the responsibly of calculating the amount each person using this method would need to show in their bank account based on that person's unique monthly income. This involves doing a bit of arithmetic which is frankly outside their capabilities.

The statement in the posting above about having 400k in the bank if using the "combination method" seems like a nice dart throw - but won't work. For example if a person only receives 20,000 THB/month with direct deposits totaling 240,000 THB for the year, then they would need 560,000 THB (for 3 months) in the bank to meet the mandatory total of 800k, not just 400k as stated. Again, this is where the arithmetic comes in that they want to avoid.

If I were relying on the "combination method" (which fortunately I'm not) I would make sure that I had the balance of 800k minus the total annual deposits for the year sitting in my Thai bank account for at least 3 months, and I would not allow my bank balance to go below 400k for the mere fact that they don't know what the fuck they're doing and I would not want that to become my problem.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Dodger » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:03 pm

2lz2p wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:15 am
Based on the latest I have heard (third hand, so cannot attest as to its reliability) is that Pattaya Immigration in Jomtien are refusing to accept any application using the Combination method.
Understanding that this third hand information may by false (and probably is), I'm about to make a remark that will be viewed as being totally naive and ignorant - BUT - if I were retired and residing in Thailand holding a Retirement Visa and was denied approval for renewal because of the Immigration department's misinterpretation (intentional or unintentional) of the combination method I would immediately contact the U.S. Embassy. This alternative method of meeting minimum financial requirements for Visa renewal has been approved by the Heads of Immigration... communicated and widely circulated to the public...and clearly displayed on both Thai and U.S. Royal Thai Embassy websites. I have no idea what the outcome would be but that's what Embassy's are for.

As mentioned before, I don't have to use the combination method myself but know that there many expats who do, including some who have made significant financial investments in Thailand which could potentially be jeopardized if Immigration stopped following its own rules. This legal policy is either supported by the local Immigration Authorities or it is not. If it is not, then the Embassy(s) should be immediately notified so the matter can be investigated and resolved.

Yes, I already know before you say it...that this is Thailand and it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong...and if you're right but they say you're wrong it simply doesn't matter and you just need to get your wallet out. I'd get my wallet out alright - but just long enough to find the U.S. Embassy business card I carry so I knew what number to dial.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:29 pm

Dodger wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:03 pm
I would immediately contact the U.S. Embassy.
What on earth makes you think the embassy could, or would even try, to do anything about it? They might provide you with a list of Thai immigration attorneys, but that's about it. When it comes to Americans with immigration problems, if you've ever seen the embassy so much as lift a finger to help, I'd like to know when that was. I'm not aware of the embassy ever trying to do a thing regarding such problems.

If the embassy was interested in trying to do something about these problems, where have they been all this time with the rules so confusing? Instead of doing away with the income affidavits, why didn't they start requiring proof, and then continue issuing the affidavits based on proof, as immigration wanted? Too much trouble? As far as I know they haven't said a word about it.

If the Thai embassies are complying with the rules about the combo method, then if immigration in any of the in-Thailand offices reject applicants, then the only thing I can think to do is leave Thailand, go to a country where the embassy will adhere to the rules, and apply for the retirement visa via that Thai embassy.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by fountainhall » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:22 pm

If the wankers at the US Embassy are anything like their counterparts at the UK Embassy, don’t expect an iota of help from them. I have written twice to the UK Embassy. My only requests were that they contact Thai Immigration for clarification. Some idiot finally wrote back to say it was not their business to query why a host country has made certain financial conditions re retirement. Which of course was not the question I asked!!

I was advised to write to the Ombudsman in the UK if not satisfied with their reply. I was under the vain belief that these Embassy staff had some degree of responsibility in respect of their own nationals. Seems you have to end up in jail before they even acknowledge you even exist!

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:01 pm

fountainhall wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:22 pm
Seems you have to end up in jail before they even acknowledge you even exist!
And even then, don't expect much help.

"What do you have to do, pass an illiteracy test to get that job!?!?"
- Ellen Burstyn (Chris MacNeil), 'The Exorcist'

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Dodger » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:41 pm

Page 5 posts are missing from this topic.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:40 pm

Dodger wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:41 pm
Page 5 posts are missing from this topic.
If there are any particular posts you want repeated, I can still get them and post them here.

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