More retirement visa problems - maybe

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Gaybutton
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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:07 pm

thewayhelooks wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:54 am
or cannot go to Immigration to clarify.
Personally, I wouldn't count on what they say even if you can go. That will mean nothing if when you go later to actually renew your visa they tell you something different. That is why I'm recommending keeping the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months prior to applying for the renewal.

I also still recommend renewing as far in advance of the expiration date as possible. It is my understanding that you can renew up to 1 month in advance. That way, if you do encounter problems you should have time to deal with it. Don't forget, even if you do renew a month in advance, the next expiration date will still be 1 year after the current expiration date.

As far as I know, those who no longer can get a proof-of-income affidavit, but can prove at least 65,000 baht per month coming in from a foreign source for a year or longer, are still supposed to be eligible for renewal. However, exactly what constitutes proof immigration will accept still is not entirely clear. I would imagine your bank passbook and letter from the bank will suffice, but does anyone know that yet? I'm planning to renew that way and will be bringing along additional evidence, such as a statement downloaded from my retirement income source. But just in case, I will also have the 800,000 baht and a letter from that bank ready. I'll dig that out if they reject my 65,000 baht per month proof.

I'm hoping they will accept the 65,000 baht per month. That will free up the 800,000 if something happens that necessitates spending it. But since we, at this point, have no idea what immigration will require a year later, I'm planning to just leave the 800,000 sitting there in the bank account, untouched.

That's part of the problem. There is just nothing we can rely on. If immigration allows the 65,000 baht with the evidence you provide this year, how do we know immigration won't yet again decide to change the requirements next year? The answer is we don't know. I wish immigration would put all the requirements in writing and give us some sort of binding guarantee that they won't change the requirements again.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Dodger » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:16 pm

Smiles wrote:
My question is very short: must the 800,000 Baht in my Thai Bank account be sitting in there 3 months or 2 months before applying for my Extension in mid-September?
Answer: 2 months.

Nice to see your scribbles again. I was starting to think you went native.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Trongpai » Fri May 03, 2019 1:42 pm

Smiles wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:32 am
IMy question is very short: must the 800,000 Baht in my Thai Bank account be sitting in there 3 months or 2 months before applying for my Extension in mid-September?
I have heard both, which sounds weird, but there you have it.
Simple question, complicated inconsistent answers, welcome to Thai Immigration.

Wednesday (May 1) in Bangkok I renewed my non-o Visa, also referred to as a retirement visa. I went in with two bank statements: One from Bangkok Bank, a "credit advise" report. One page each for every month showing money transferred in from USA in excess of 65,000B each month. Then I had another bank account K-Bank showing a deposit in excess of 800,000B deposited around 4 months ago. I had a bank letters along with the pass books.

The official looked at the assembled documentation and picked the K-Bank documentations but wanted the bank book updated today, I had it updated the day before, not good enough? Luckily there's a K-Bank at Bangkok Immigration. She took the original bank letter and rejected a photo copy.

I would have preferred qualifying with the monthly 65+ method but when I asked about that she said, NO! Mai dee. Not good this year, maybe next year. She then kept me busy signing my name again and again on all sorts of forms, none of which I had the opportunity to read.

Nothing about checking that I have 400,000B in the account in 4 months though I might have signed something about that.

I had to show something with my address, that's new for Bangkok. My DL was sufficient. Also new, I had to draw a map of where I live in Bangkok.

Now, I have no idea if I only had the bank 'Credit advise" and did not have the money in another account if I would have obtained the visa or not. She might have just picked the bank deposit method because it was easier. She was very polite but I got the impression she did not want to answer a lot of question and did not speak much English to me.

When she was looking at the bank book with the deposited money from January, she said OK, this is good, has to be in bank for 3 months before application date.

It all went very fast and then I had to wait two hours for my passport and bank book to be returned and stamped.

As I sat waiting I did notice a lot of frustrated farangs getting rejected but I did not have details of why.

This is my personal experience at a single moment in time with a particular immigration official at the Bangkok office. Your millage will vary under different conditions, jurisdiction and the official reviewing the application.

As a side note, dealing with the banks:
Credit advise Bangkok Bank main branch 300B, second floor, foreign accounts department. Two day wait.
K-Bank- the BF called and asked if I can get a bank letter at a K-Bank branch or did I have to go the the main office where I opened the account. He was told any branch can give you the letter. First thing out of the clerks mouth was you have to go to the main office for this. When the BF told her the call center told her any branch can give the letter she huffed a little, asked someone, there was a discussion, and it took two people to figure out how to key in commands to obtain the letter, 100B fee.

This is a K Bank branch where farangs are not common. At Bank Bank's Silom branch farangs are common they were not confused and spoke English.

Bangkok Immigration;
Arrived 6:45am got # 70 for the pre-entry ticket at 8:30 opening. Then #10 for non-O section. Called in 9:30 and passport returned at 11:30am.
The majority of the people in line were Asians. There were 70 people in front of me to enter and around 100 after me. I counted a total of 9 farangs. China?
There are 6 operational non-o desks, 5 were open. Very busy, very slow. More busy and slower than years gone by. China?
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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Undaunted » Fri May 03, 2019 2:21 pm

Tongpai were you directed to return in another 3 months with an updated passbook showing 800,000 still on deposit?
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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Fri May 03, 2019 2:25 pm

Trongpai wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:42 pm
Simple question, complicated inconsistent answers, welcome to Thai Immigration.
I'm not surprised. As far as I can tell, the various immigration offices still just make up their own rules. It's impossible to be certain what you'll be walking into when applying for the retirement visa renewal.

While rules and laws might be in place, it seems the various immigration officers have had either very little training or perhaps none at all. With this kind of confusion still going on, obviously whatever training was given, it wan't very effective. Who knows if even people doing the training actually knew the rules themselves

It wouldn't surprise me if some immigration officers actually attended training sessions, if indeed there were any, but instead of paying any attention they were staring at their mobile phones.

This is exactly why I keep suggesting to apply for the renewal as early as possible and, if you can, go in with both proof of the 65,000 baht per month income and proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least 3 months (despite the fact that the latest rules say the money only needs to be in the account 2 months). And whatever you take with you, make sure it's dated the same day you go.

I'll be doing my own renewal about a week from now. I'll post my experience.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Trongpai » Fri May 03, 2019 2:28 pm

Undaunted wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 2:21 pm
Tongpai were you directed to return in another 3 months with an updated passbook showing 800,000 still on deposit?
No, nothing was said about this at all. "Here is the stamp, you're good for another year. I signed a lot of papers and one might have said something about that. As I signed it was yanked away with another form with a x to sign here and here and here. Things were going smooth and I did not want to rock the boat with a lot of questions.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Gaybutton » Fri May 03, 2019 2:31 pm

Undaunted wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 2:21 pm
Tongpai were you directed to return in another 3 months with an updated passbook showing 800,000 still on deposit?
From what I understand, only the Pattaya immigration office has told anyone to come back 3 months later with an updated passbook. I wonder who looks at it.

I also wonder what happens if you don't go back, but I have no intention of being the one who finds out the hard way if they tell me to go back.

Until they get this mess straightened out, if they ever do, and provide a specific set of rules to follow and what documentation to present, as far as I'm concerned, that 800,000 will remain in my account, untouched. I don't like it, but I'd like it a lot less if I find myself denied the visa.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Undaunted » Fri May 03, 2019 2:35 pm

Trongpai wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 2:28 pm
Undaunted wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 2:21 pm
Tongpai were you directed to return in another 3 months with an updated passbook showing 800,000 still on deposit?
No, nothing was said about this at all. "Here is the stamp, you're good for another year. I signed a lot of papers and one might have said something about that. As I signed it was yanked away with another form with a x to sign here and here and here. Things were going smooth and I did not want to rock the boat with a lot of questions.
When I did my retirement visa last month I was asked to x 2 different papers 1 was that I understood the penalties for an overstay and that the kingdom reserved the right to cancel my visa at anytime and 1 with a date 3 months from the new visa date instructing me to return with an updated passbook.

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Up2u » Fri May 03, 2019 3:41 pm

"One from Bangkok Bank, a "credit advise" report. One page each for every month showing money transferred in from USA in excess of 65,000B each month."..... Did you have 12 months worth of "credit advise" transfers? Perhaps that's why she said not this year, maybe next year. How much does BB charge for these reports?

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Re: More retirement visa problems - maybe

Post by Trongpai » Fri May 03, 2019 3:43 pm

Bangkok Immigration is just not set up to re-check bank pass books for balances. It would take a new section with take a number and wait. If you had to take a number at the present non-o section it would be an all day wait unless you get in very early.

I guess the 90 section could check this but they seem pretty 90 day focused and there's nothing in the passport to indicate that you qualified with a bank balance. The 90day section in Bangkok has 1000+ applicants per day with 4 service windows.

Pattaya Immigration has always been a horse of a different color.

Bangkok Immigration is at the tipping point with the volume of clients. One day last month there were over 300 people in line before opening at 8:30. Then add to the location is for most Bangkok residents out in a difficult to get to suburb on traffic choked roads.

I guess when I apply next year they can review the cash flow in my bank account for the previous year. I plan to comply with the new rules even though there's no come back and have the book checked procedure.

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