Retirement Life in Thailand

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Dodger
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Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by Dodger »

I’m writing this for the purpose of being able to reflect on the transition I’ve been going through and apologize in advance for taking so much band width. Writing helps me see myself.

I was convinced that Thailand would one day become my home during my very first visit to LOS in 1998. Now, being six months into my retirement here, I can’t say that I have any regrets. I’m grateful for being able to experience two decades of Pattaya during its hay day and often wonder how I survived it. I made so many costly mistakes involving Boys and Money but some mistakes are just too much fun to only make once. Those who experienced Pattaya back then know exactly what I’m talking about. Conversely, it would be totally impossible to describe to anyone who hadn’t.

Thailand is certainly not for everyone. If I said I enjoyed the constant scorching heat I’d be lying but it beats the hell out of Chicago winters so I’ve learned to adapt. Driving is another point of discontent for the mere fact that Thais don’t know how to drive and will murder you with their vehicles if given half a chance…and that’s putting it mildly. After being 3 hours late It took 3 Thai electricians (not one) to install a single ceiling light in my kitchen which ended up being off-center…the wall switch got mounted 4 inches lower than I had requested and it was the wrong color. The angrier you get at them the more they smile, and whatever you do don’t argue with them or they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time. They are never wrong. The best thing to do is agree with them so you can all be wrong in harmony. Living in Thailand requires a lot of patience, a willingness to compromise and the ability to cope with things that would blow a normal person’s mind.

My greatest fear about Retirement was boredom so I intentionally fill my days with hobbies I enjoy and try to avoid the sofa. I exercise early in the morning before my brain figures out what I’m doing, followed by a brisk walk along the ocean and routine stop at the fishing docks in Bang Saray to watch the boys unloading their nightly catch. Sometimes I notice the fish. Being from Chicago I really can’t tell you the names of these ocean fish but I think I saw an octopus one time but it could have been a tuna I'm not exactly sure. I occasionally take a 25 minute motorbike ride to Pattaya for early morning coffee and a chat with friends, although I rarely visit the bar scene anymore because the bars are either gone or have dwindled down to a candle flicker. I have a boyfriend who’s a real home body and sharing my time with him works for me. I’m able to save money versus having it stuffed in a bar bin cup and waking up without a hangover and watching the sunrise from my bed versus a bar stool is an exhilarating new concept.

I think I’ve had around 150 relationships of some sort over the years with various types of Thai boys i.e., gogo boys, lady boys, str8 boys, delivery boys, massage boys, elephant boys, monks, shoe shine boys, whatever, none of which led to any long term success, but I’m a firm believer that if at first you don’t succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried and keep plowing ahead. The guy I finally latched on to (Jai) is really a gem. We’ve been connected for 6 years now and I think it’s safe to say that we both really enjoy each other’s company. We trust and respect each other and have a lot in common when it comes to life in general. He earns a modest income as a dress designer, owns his own home and workshop in Buriram and takes pride in being self-sufficient. Thank you Gayromeo.

The memories of past friends (Thai and Farang) who have disappeared over time is a source of regret. I see their images sometimes when I’m standing in the market, sitting in one of the old haunts, or just walking down a soi in Pattaya or Jomtien. There are very few places I visit that don’t rekindle a memory of someone who was special in my life. I guess that’s why I’m here. It’s more than just the sex, it’s the place where memories were made.

My plans right now are simple: I intend to live forever. So far, so good.
fountainhall

Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by fountainhall »

Thanks Dodger for telling your story so vividly. You've captured much of the joy as well as the frustrations of retiring in this unique country.

I have told quite a bit of my story in other threads over the last couple of yeas, so I'll try to avoid too much repetition. I knew Thailand pretty well by the time I decided I would retire here. I moved to a job in Hong Kong early in my career 40 years ago and within months had discovered the 'amazing' part of amazing gay Thailand. My two-year contract was extended to eight after which I worked for a couple of other international companies before setting up a small one of my own in Hong Kong. I finally closed that a year ago.

Over my first 15 years, I visited and occasionally did work for clients here. By then I felt I had to make a decision on where I might want to consider eventual retirement. During those years I had visited almost every gay venue in Bangkok many times over. And yes, I fell for the charms of the boys, took more off than I could ever recall, loved interacting with them and fell in love more than once. I even took a couple to Hong Kong for a week or two. Discovering all the new bars and saunas that were opening up in the 1980s and early 1990s made my regular long week-ends here seem far too short.

My work and holidays had taken me all over Asia, along with regular annual trips to Europe, the USA and Australia. Being on expatriate terms for most of those years, I had never had to purchase an apartment. That was a major financial error as I ended up spending far too much just enjoying Asia and saving too little for the future. Even in the 1980s, Hong Kong real estate was expensive and required a long-term commitment I was not prepared to make. Of course, had I realised that hot money from mainland China would start flowing into the property market around 1990 and values quickly sky-rocketed, I would not have been nearly so reticent. Such is life!

In any event, I knew while Hong Kong was a fantastic place for under 50s, it was not a place for longer-term retirement, even if cost was not a factor. So in the mid-1990s I took several months off work to come to a variety of decisions, specifically did I still wish to remain working in Asia and would I be happy to retire here. It was not long before I realised the pull of Asia was far too strong. Around 1996 I had whittled my list down to two cities - Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur. I would definitely not consider KL now, but in the mid-1990s it was a very different - and a very gay - city. Even though a gay scene was far from a primary factor, Bangkok won out. I knew the city, had friends here, and felt I knew quite a bit about the culture and Thai thinking. That last part turned out not to be the case – and remains so today.

I know most advice nowadays is to rent, not buy. But I had enough savings to purchase an apartment and knew it would be for the long term. Initially my intention was to rent it out for at least 10 years. By the turn of the millennium, though, the Asian Economic Crisis had hit Hong Kong hard resulting in the worst recession since World War 2. So I gave up my rented flat and moved here, deciding to commute monthly to the office in Hong Kong.

Even now I have never regretted my decision. I enjoy Bangkok despite the occasional frustrations that arise when living here. I have always been a big city person and Bangkok offers almost everything I want. I enjoy visiting other parts of the country, some regularly. I still travel overseas quite regularly, and though not working here, my Hong Kong-based work took me to various other countries, including Taiwan which has been increasingly a favoured destination. My regular visits to the gay scene here have gradually been reduced, partly due to longer-term relationships and partly due to all the changes taking place. Age, too, is a factor, I guess. The rose-tinted remembrance of great times past render today's offerings of less interest.

I feel fortunate in that I still do occasional freelance work in the region. I am also branching out into a new venture. Like Dodger the last thing I want to do is end up collapsed on the sofa. But I certainly have no plans to live forever. Whenever the grim reaper appears, I will know I have been extraordinarily fortunate thus far.
ก้นconnoisseur

Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by ก้นconnoisseur »

Great report Dodger! I miss your old trip reports so I hope you will keep on with retirement reports. I think your choice of Bang Saray helps in your contentment. I’m content to visit a couple of times a year, and while I mildly fantasized about retiring in LOS in my early visits some 20 years ago back in the day, I couldn’t imagine living in Pattaya, I don’t even stay there on vacations having long ago made Jomtien my choice when I’m in town.

That and your relationship with Jai of course. Sounds like you’ve got a good thing going. Keep it up!

Dodger wrote:
Writing helps me see myself.
Me too and it is often therapeutic for me. I look forward to more of your writing. And this is one of the reasons:

Dodger wrote:
…I’m a firm believer that if at first you don’t succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried and keep plowing ahead.
Beautiful! I intend to hijack that and use it.
My plans right now are simple: I intend to live forever. So far, so good.
Good luck on that one. Frank Sinatra often said “May you live to be a hundred and the last voice you hear is mine”. Of course, he cashed in his chips at 82, but after a lifetime of boozing, smoking, and sexual excess I’d say that’s pretty good.

fountainhall wrote:
Whenever the grim reaper appears, I will know I have been extraordinarily fortunate thus far.
Anyone who can say that is certainly lucky. When the iconic Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee was writing his memoirs it was suggested to him that he simply title it “A Good Life”, which he then did as he agreed he had. Any of us who can say that, and I count myself as one, is indeed fortunate.

Well, with retirement not on my radar I gotta get to the office. Cheers everybody!
Dodger
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Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by Dodger »

Thank you fountainhall and nuconnoisseur for your thoughtful comments, and also for sharing a bit about yourselves.

nuconnoisseur wrote:
When the iconic Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee was writing his memoirs it was suggested to him that he simply title it “A Good Life”, which he then did as he agreed he had. Any of us who can say that, and I count myself as one, is indeed fortunate.
Funny you should bring that up because one of the many thoughts I had when plunging into retirement was;..."Oh Shit"..."this is the final third"..."there are no more thirds after this one". "Maybe if I push off retirement I can move the final third out a bit more".

I was surprised in the 80's that I survived the insane and somewhat blurred Rock n' Roll era in Chicago in the 70's. Then there was that military thing (another blur)... and then to gone on to survive two decades of Sodom and Gomorrah in Thailand in the new millennium. I'm sure I should have died somewhere along the line and guess that somehow I just got missed.
pong
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Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by pong »

Thanks all of you-really interesting and nice postings this time.
Myself retired too and to move home shortly, but in EUR. having once worked/stayed for slightly over 1 yr in TH (not in BKK-Khmer refugee camps and nearby) i knew it would never be for all time. I just fly over twice a year-for 1 month and for 2 monthes in the Th cool season and that suits me fine, and still try to combine to visit other ASEAN from BKK as its soo very easy and cheap. Reading all the endless problems that arise in fora from pensioner-expats etc., plus a drastic lowering of the state-pension I get here if i moved (adapted to local prices) and a very generous health-care system are also factors.
Jun

Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by Jun »

Thanks for the excellent posts so far. At the moment, I am just spending the winter months in SE Asia. It's interesting to read the retirement stories.
However, it is also amazing to see that living in Thailand gets 4 replies & dying in Thailand has 17, at the time of writing.
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ceejay
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Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by ceejay »

I thought about making a post in this thread, decided not to and then changed my mind 2 or 3 times. Here I am now.
Briefly, after 2 years of spending English winters here, I made a permanent move from England to Thailand in 2014 and have been here ever since. I live with my boyfriend of over 7 years in Chiang Mai.
So why am I reluctant to share my experiences? Because they are personal, and even if it were possible for someone to have the same experiences as me, they would experience them in a different way - possibly radically so.
I recently made a post on Thai visa that said:
I would never recommend anywhere to anybody else as a place to retire to. That's a decision they have to make by themselves and, if they can't do that, they should stay at home.
I hold by that. I would not want to feel responsible for someone a making disastrous move out here by imagining that they could somehow replicate my life. They have to live their own.
I will, however, give a few tips which I think would hold for anywhere:
1. Spend a serious, continuous, length of time living here before you break your links with your home country. No matter how many times you have visited a country, it is not the same as living there.
2. Don't expect the act of moving to another country to solve any problems you may have. You will bring them with you.
3. The decision is not an exercise in accounting. Do not add up a balance sheet of pros and cons for a place or places. Listen to your gut. If it is not telling you to move here, then don't.

The last one is especially true for Thailand where this "balance sheet" approach is often disastrous. After a year or two people start taking the plus points for granted and become more and more obsessive about the perceived negatives. That is the road to madness - or at least the road back to their home country.
So, a piece of Thailand specific advice. Thailand is a land of extremes - by turns enchanting and maddening. You are not going to change the maddening part and you must accept that.
THAILAND COMES AS A PACKAGE. take it or leave it on those terms. If you cannot do that, you may find life here very difficult.
werner99
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Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by werner99 »

Dodger and Fountainhall,

Thank you very much for your interesting and insightful comments about retirement in Thailand (as well as other reports that you have both posted on various forums through the years). You both write extremely well.

I have thought much about retiring, and perhaps living in Thailand at least a few months of the year.

But I fear that I would find retirement too boring. Thus, I have decided to continue working, even though I am now well past the "normal" retirement age. I just signed a new contract. The job and conditions are not ideal, but more than satisfactory.

Moreover, I do not think that could settle down anyway. I shall continue to travel the world, and try to spend at least a few weeks each year in Thailand. Sigh....I do not feel totally at "home" anywhere, and have lived more than 75 percent of my life outside my native Switzerland. And --alas--in many ways, I am more comfortable in English than in my native French....
Dodger
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Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by Dodger »

werner99 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 2:13 pmBut I fear that I would find retirement too boring.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

I can definitely relate with your concerns about boredom. The last 25 years of my career involved constant travel and the thought of retirement scared the hell out of me. I've been retired and living full-time in Thailand for eight months now and somehow (miraculously) I'm able to keep myself busy.
All those little things that I've always wanted to do, but never had time for, are what's filling my days.

Good luck with your travels...you'll know when the time is right...and it's amazing!

Cheers
werner99
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Re: Retirement Life in Thailand

Post by werner99 »

Dodger wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 4:54 pm
werner99 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 2:13 pmBut I fear that I would find retirement too boring.
Good luck with your travels...you'll know when the time is right...and it's amazing!

Cheers
Thanks, Dodger for your best wishes -- and also for your many interesting posts.

OH....to retire or not to retire? And where to retire?

I will follow my heart and continue to work and to travel the world as long as possible.
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