Mandatory health insurance

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Up2u

Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Up2u »

Gaybutton wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 9:08 am
Undaunted wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 8:38 am Interesting assumption, but anything but “clear”.
One part not clear to me is if someone applies for a first-time retirement visa within Thailand, rather than applying for it in the home country, assuming eligible, which visa does he end up with, the O or the O-A?
I came here on a tourist visa which was converted to a non O and extension to stay for retirement all on the same day. I had friends who came on the 30 day visa waiver and later converted that to the non O and then a retirement extension. I believe they clamped down on that and is no longer possible; one would get a tourist visa outside Thailand.
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2lz2p
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by 2lz2p »

Gaybutton wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:30 am
Undaunted wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 9:28 am Clearly an “O” visa.
I'm trying, and failing, to make some sense out of this. If someone is eligible for the retirement visa and applies for it in his home country, he has to provide a police report and proof of fulfilling Thailand's medical insurance requirements. Then he gets the O-A visa and will have to at least provide proof of insurance the next year when renewing.

If Undaunted is correct, if that same person applies for a first-time retirement visa within Thailand, he doesn't have to provide proof of insurance or a police report - and he gets the O visa.

If that makes any sense, I'd be grateful if someone can explain the logic to me. What am I missing? Guess what's on my "I Don't Get It" list . . .

Non-Immigrant Visas have various letters to denote the purpose for which they are issued. The Non-Immigrant O-A is offered only to applicants that are residents of the country where they are applying. It is provided for those that meet the requirements for retiring in Thailand (i.e., meet age and financial requirements) - the police report and medical certificate are part of the requirements to obtain the O-A Visa.

You can also get a Non-Immigrant O Visa from most Thai Embassies/Consulates - the "O" stands for "Other". This Visa category is also used for those wishing to retire in Thailand as well as for those married to or related to a Thai or wanting to do volunteering work. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs website does show that category "O" is for those wishing to retire in Thailand -http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4 ... -Visa.html.
other activities (Category "O") as follows:
to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process.
The MofFA also has a section re the O-A category - http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4 ... Stay).html
1. Eligibility

1.1 Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application).

1.2 Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).

1.3 Having no criminal record in Thailand and the country of the applicant’s nationality or residence.

1.4 Having the nationality of or permanent residence in the country where application is submitted.

1.5 Not having prohibitive diseases ( Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, third phase of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 B.E. 2535.

1.6 Employment in Thailand is prohibited.
Note 1.4 regarding being a permanent resident of country where application is made and 1.3 and 1.5 relate to police report and medical certificate requirements. These are not requirements for the "O" category. Immigration, if applying in Thailand, will issue the "O" Visa if you meet the age and financial requirements for retirement.

As I've noted in other postings, the "Visa" allows entry into to Thailand for a specified period - "permitted to stay until" - this is 90 days for Non-Immigrant Visas except for the "O-A" (one year stay) and "O-X" (five year stay). Once the permission to stay is set to expire, you can usually apply for a one year extension of the stay by showing you meet Immigration requirements for such extension (five years if it is an O-X).

It is fairly clear that the health insurance requirement when imposed will be for applicants for the O-A Visa only -- again, what is not clear as the articles mention "renewal" of the O-A Visa as also being subject to the insurance requirement -- however, you do not renew an O-A Visa - you can either apply for another one OR renew your extension that was granted on the basis of an O-A Visa. Since the articles are based on the statements of a Ministry of Health Official, it may be he actually meant renewal of the extension OR he is not aware of how people entering on O-A Visas remain in Thailand by extending their stay, not their Visa. So, IMO, it will depend on how their interaction with the Immigration Bureau on implementing the requirements are finalized - will Immigration decide it does or does not apply to renewal of extensions granted for O-A Visas.

That is an unknown until actual rules for imposing the health insurance requirement are finalized. So, for anyone to say it will or will not at this time, IMO is pure speculation on their part.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by 2lz2p »

Up2u wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 3:50 pm
Gaybutton wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 9:08 am
Undaunted wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 8:38 am Interesting assumption, but anything but “clear”.
One part not clear to me is if someone applies for a first-time retirement visa within Thailand, rather than applying for it in the home country, assuming eligible, which visa does he end up with, the O or the O-A?
I came here on a tourist visa which was converted to a non O and extension to stay for retirement all on the same day. I had friends who came on the 30 day visa waiver and later converted that to the non O and then a retirement extension. I believe they clamped down on that and is no longer possible; one would get a tourist visa outside Thailand.
You can still apply for a non-O at Thai Immigration, but there are a few more hoops and you don't get both on the same day from Jomtien Immigration. Previously, Jomtien IO was permitted to issue the non-O -- but not anymore, you can submit an application with documents at Jomtien IO, but they have now have to send it to Bangkok for approval. Once approved, they will give you a 90 day permitted stay from the issue date of the non-O Visa and tell you to come back after 60 days to apply for the one year extension.
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Gaybutton
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Gaybutton »

2lz2p wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 4:02 pm Non-Immigrant Visas have various letters to denote the purpose for which they are issued. The Non-Immigrant O-A is offered only to applicants that are residents of the country where they are applying. It is provided for those that meet the requirements for retiring in Thailand (i.e., meet age and financial requirements) - the police report and medical certificate are part of the requirements to obtain the O-A Visa.

You can also get a Non-Immigrant O Visa from most Thai Embassies/Consulates - the "O" stands for "Other". This Visa category is also used for those wishing to retire in Thailand as well as for those married to or related to a Thai or wanting to do volunteering work. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs website does show that category "O" is for those wishing to retire in Thailand - http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4 ... f-Visa.htm
It's difficult to take in all that. What it seems like to me is if you apply for the retirement visa in your home country, you're going to get the O-A. Maybe you'll use the visa and maybe you won't.

If you apply for the visa within Thailand and they grant it, it's an O, and Thailand assumes you're actually going to use it and retire in Thailand.

It seems to me people are better off applying for the visa within Thailand and end up with the O, which apparently is less restrictive and fewer requirements to fulfill.

I don't know if I'm right or wrong about that, but the whole thing is a little too convoluted for me.

In the meantime, I fail to see a significant difference between the O-A and the O and I still fail to see why the O-A has the insurance requirement, but the O does not.

I'm just glad I retired in Thailand when I did - when it was easy to get the O and easy to open Thai bank accounts.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Dodger »

2Lz2p wrote:
...however, you do not renew an O-A Visa - you can either apply for another one OR renew your extension that was granted on the basis of an O-A Visa.
So, by not applying for a new one and choosing to apply for an Extension of Stay, what then happens to the O-A classification. Does it just become null and void? if this were the case it would have been nice if the Immigration Commissioner would have just said this in his Letter of Clarification because this is what has the expats the most confused.

I think we need a Letter of Clarification to Clarify the original Letter of Clarification.

GB,

I have an O-A visa as indicated by the first stamp immigration applied to my new passport book a few years back. As 2Lz2p has stated, it is not the visa itself that we are renewing every year, it's actually the "Extension to Stay" we're renewing. If that's true, then my question remains: Will O-A visa holders who have already gone through the extension process be required to show proof of insurance?

Honestly, I don't think Immigration can even answer this question for the mere fact that they're still in the process of considering the ramifications. We (farang) are much better at this.

I've already decided to pick up a reasonably priced health insurance policy regardless of what the answer to my question is. As Undaunted stated earlier, this looks like just the beginning and I don't want to dick around with this any more than I have already.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Bob »

Dodger wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:32 pm I have an O-A visa as indicated by the first stamp immigration applied to my new passport book a few years back. As 2Lz2p has stated, it is not the visa itself that we are renewing every year, it's actually the "Extension to Stay" we're renewing. If that's true, then my question remains: Will O-A visa holders who have already gone through the extension process be required to show proof of insurance?
Although a bit off-topic, I've always understood that the extension we get every year (whether originally based on a Non-O or Non-OA visa) is actually an extension of that original visa (or additional permission to stay based on that original visa). Often nowadays (at least in Chiangmai), an annual extension packet of paperwork includes a copy of the original Non-O upon which the various annual extensions have been based. And, when one obtains a new passport, the stamps that get transferred only involve the information about the original Non-O visa (and, if you happen to have obtained a Non-O visa within Thailand based on coming in on a Tourist visa, information about that Tourist visa too) which originated your permission to stay in Thailand.

With respect to the health insurance issue, I annually purchase a so-called "travel health insurance" policy from IMG (I can do this as it's for 8-9 months only as I return to the US for a few months every summer) and I have no clue if that policy will comply with the new rules (if/when those new rules apply to most of us who annually extend based on Non-O visas).
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by 2lz2p »

GB:
It seems to me people are better off applying for the visa within Thailand and end up with the O, which apparently is less restrictive and fewer requirements to fulfill.
If you apply in Thailand, it is the "O" Visa that is issued. But, you can also get an "O" Visa in a Thai Embassy/Consulate in another country, e.g., Laos, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc. Doing that, when you enter Thailand you receive a permission to stay of 90 days. After 60 days, you can apply for the one year extension at Immigration - no paperwork has to be sent to Bangkok for approval since you already have the Non-O Visa. So, apparently, if an O visa is obtained in a country other than the one of your residence or in Thailand, the health insurance requirements will not apply (that said, once Immigration gets involved, the powers that be may suddenly realize that the O-A is not the only basis for retirees to stay in Thailand).
Bob wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:57 pm
Dodger wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:32 pm I have an O-A visa as indicated by the first stamp immigration applied to my new passport book a few years back. As 2Lz2p has stated, it is not the visa itself that we are renewing every year, it's actually the "Extension to Stay" we're renewing. If that's true, then my question remains: Will O-A visa holders who have already gone through the extension process be required to show proof of insurance?
Although a bit off-topic, I've always understood that the extension we get every year (whether originally based on a Non-O or Non-OA visa) is actually an extension of that original visa (or additional permission to stay based on that original visa). Often nowadays (at least in Chiangmai), an annual extension packet of paperwork includes a copy of the original Non-O upon which the various annual extensions have been based. And, when one obtains a new passport, the stamps that get transferred only involve the information about the original Non-O visa (and, if you happen to have obtained a Non-O visa within Thailand based on coming in on a Tourist visa, information about that Tourist visa too) which originated your permission to stay in Thailand.
The rules for extending stay state one of the requirements is you have a Non-Immigrant Visa (for retirement, that would be an O or an O-A). Therefore, the original visa used for the first extension is the "base" upon which the extensions are granted - the fact that is it most likely has expired (mine expired in 2003), that simply means it can't be used as a basis for entry into Thailand - but is still needed to show you qualify for the one year extensions.

The question that Dodger states is the one that at present remains unanswered and will probably stay so until Immigration chimes in on the requirement -- as to the articles, the official (and I reiterate, he was from the Ministry of Health not Immigration) noted that the Cabinet had approved requiring health insurance specifically for the applicants for an O-A Visa. Further, that they still had to get with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (they control the Embassies/Consulates that issue visas) and Immigration (part of Royal Police under the Ministry of Interior that issues permissions to stay and approves extensions) to determine the process (rules, regulations, steps, whatever). He anticipated that this would be accomplished and the requirement could be implemented in July. So, as I previously mentioned, will the requirement apply or not apply for those extending their stay based on use of an O-A Visa is still an unanswered question and most likely will remain so for a while.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Gaybutton »

Dodger wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:32 pm GB,

I have an O-A visa as indicated by the first stamp immigration applied to my new passport book a few years back.
Maybe I'm just being silly, but instead of asking us, why don't you go to immigration and ask them? I don't believe any of us are going to be able to satisfactorily address your concern, so why not ask the people who make the decisions?

2lz2p wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 6:25 pm apparently, if an O visa is obtained in a country other than the one of your residence or in Thailand, the health insurance requirements will not apply
My "I Don't Get It" list just keeps growing longer and longer.
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Undaunted »

10 pages to say "O" visa no problem "A-O" visa problem :roll:
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"
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Re: Mandatory health insurance

Post by Gaybutton »

Undaunted wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 9:27 pm 10 pages to say "O" visa no problem "A-O" visa problem :roll:
And to think I didn't know you can count . . .

On this board, people get to discuss issues as much as they wish, no matter how many pages. I remember when the main concern was about 800,000 baht vs 65,000 baht. Now it's medical insurance and O vs O-A visas.

When this is finished, don't worry - there are sure to be plenty more things that come up.
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