Mandatory health insurance

[Undaunted]

When this is finished, don't worry - there are sure to be plenty more things that come up.

Don’t forget the Cave Boys!

[Up2u]

This week's edition of the Pattaya Mail (paper edition only) has an article on the health insurance confusion with comments from Barry Kenyon. Bottom line, the new requirements beginning sometime in July (?) are for those seeking non-immigrant O-A visa, period. Those on annual retirement extensions not affected.

[Gaybutton]

This week's edition of the Pattaya Mail (paper edition only) has an article on the health insurance confusion with comments from Barry Kenyon.

Unless it is two different articles (I haven't seen the paper edition), it is also published in the online edition.

What bothers me is whoever wrote the first published articles could easily have made everything crystal clear instead of causing so much confusion and anxiety. And some sort of formal, clear statement from immigration would have been nice too.

Oh well, anyway, here is the article:
_______________________________________

Health Insurance and Expats

May 17, 2019

Notwithstanding misleading information spread last week by some media, the vast majority of longstay expats in Thailand do not require health insurance to obtain or to renew their 12-monthly permits. In particular, holders of the yearly extension of stay for retirees over 50 years of age or for farang with Thai spouses, obtained at the local immigration office, are exempt from the latest developments.

Last week, the Thai Ministry of Health announced a Cabinet decision that health insurance was now mandatory for foreigners applying for or renewing a one year visa. However, this ruling applied only to aliens seeking a 12-month visa from a Thai consulate or embassy abroad. In reality, most of the 60,000 expats living in Thailand obtain their extension of stay – not technically a visa – by applying at the immigration office nearest to their home in Thailand.

The confusion is believed to have occurred because Thai embassies and consulates across the world are under the authority of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but immigration police come under a separate jurisdiction. The 12-month visa issued by embassies is known as “O/A” and is normally applied for in the foreigner’s home country. It requires a great deal of paperwork, in addition to the recently-announced medical insurance, and requires police clearance, proof of residence, detailed bank statements and a documentary audit trail of the sources of income.

It has also been clarified that the Elite Visa, issued by the Thai government for a period of 5-20 years for a one-off payment of between 500,000 and 2,000,000 baht, is also exempt from any requirement to obtain medical insurance. The Elite Visa is popular with wealthy foreigners who want to take advantage of reduced bureaucracy and to enjoy several perks which include fast-track airport services and discounts at hotels, restaurants, golf courses and spas.

Barry Kenyon, a former British embassy officer and current adviser to a group of Thai lawyers said, “Immigration rules are a very sensitive issue here and keep expats awake at night.

However, all those dealing with the immigration office for their extension of stay can rest easy at the moment.”

However, he warned that the momentum was growing for compulsory medical insurance for all visitors, adding that a recent informal survey suggested that 80 percent of retired expats had no policy because insurance companies loaded premiums for the elderly, or refused cover altogether.

Thai government sources say that Thai hospitals in the public sector are losing many millions of baht a year because foreigners cannot pay their in-patient bills. But most of the publicized cases of stranded foreigners appealing for crowd-funding to pay for urgent operations or for air flights home are short-term tourists of working age.

“Certainly in Pattaya, the elderly are mostly a law-abiding lot,” concluded Mr Kenyon.

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/health ... ats-254963

[Dodger]

That is an unknown until actual rules for imposing the health insurance requirement are finalized. So, for anyone to say it will or will not at this time, IMO is pure speculation on their part

I agree.

In the meantime, I fail to see a significant difference between the O-A and the O and I still fail to see why the O-A has the insurance requirement, but the O does not.

IMO - By immigration selecting the "O-A" classification for mandatory health insurance and not the "O" classification this year simply exposed their implementation plan.

Understanding that there is absolutely no difference between the two visa's as they relate to retirement in Thailand this is the only thing that makes sense. If they had selected ALL retirement visa's (O, O-A, X, etc.) it would be overwhelming on immigration staff and by implementing this policy incrementally they probably feel they have better control. Immigration staff (not the ones who are making these decisions - but the one's who are doing the actual work) not only have to apply extra scrutiny to visa applications because of the changes related to verification of funds, they also have to start verifying health insurance policies, including the content of such policies, to ensure that minimum inpatient and outpatient coverage's are being provided. I'm sure they're delighted.

All this in a nut shell tells me that eventually all retiree's will have to have minimum health insurance coverage in order to maintain their retirement visa's regardless of what visa classification they are holding.

This week's edition of the Pattaya Mail (paper edition only) has an article on the health insurance confusion with comments from Barry Kenyon. Bottom line, the new requirements beginning sometime in July (?) are for those seeking non-immigrant O-A visa, period. Those on annual retirement extensions not affected.

Barry must be reading the same releases we are because this confusing statement was first made by the new Immigration Commissioner last week Taken verbatim, this implies that only new O-A applicants will be required to show proof on insurance which may or may not be the case. IMO this still needs to be clarified and confirmed by Immigration. If in fact those on annual extensions are not effected - then this also needs to be clarified and confirmed by Immigration.

I'm not questioning the validity of Barry's comments at all , but the expat community has to hear this clearly and directly from the Government (Immigration). Too many people talking to the press and not enough control at the top.

[2lz2p]

First, while interesting, the article does not show source of the information or how the author can be so assured that their interpretation of the statements by the Ministry of Health is the correct one, albeit it is one that is being espoused by many based on their interpretation (wishful thinking). As to Barry Kenyon's comments, he does not state he agrees with the author's interpretation but rather makes a general comment about retirees and that based on recent emphasis may become a requirement for all retirees; he also notes that unpaid hospital fees are also from tourists rather than retirees.

While I can agree with much that is said in the article, the following statement from the article is not clear and as mentioned in my previous posts, is the unanswered question at this time:

Last week, the Thai Ministry of Health announced a Cabinet decision that health insurance was now mandatory for foreigners applying for or renewing a one year visa. However, this ruling applied only to aliens seeking a 12-month visa from a Thai consulate or embassy abroad. In reality, most of the 60,000 expats living in Thailand obtain their extension of stay – not technically a visa – by applying at the immigration office nearest to their home in Thailand.

(Emphasis added)

While you can apply at a Thai Embassy/Consulate for the Non-Immigrant O-A Visa, you cannot renew it - once it expires, you can go back to your country of residence and apply for a new one.

The comment by Ministry of Health official regarding renewal could mean that he was not aware that you cannot renew an O-A Visa (at an Embassy/Consulate or Thai Immigration for that matter) or that he meant it will apply to those seeking an extension of stay at Thai Immigration if they initially entered Thailand using an O-A Visa. The author also left out the Official's comment that they would be meeting with not only the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but also with Immigration to iron out the details on applying the requirement; thus the anticipated start date for the requirement in July 2019.

Until that is done, IMO no one can say with certainty that it will not apply to extensions of stay for those that initially entered using an O-A Visa. I do agree that it is highly unlikely to apply to those that used an Non-Immigrant Visa other than the O-A or O-X and apply for extensions of stay based on retirement at this time, but as Kenyon said, it could happen later.

GB mentions that it would help if Immigration clarified the issue, I agree, but as noted in news articles, the Ministry of Health is just now coordinating implementation with Immigration and results are not expected until July. Thus, it is unlikely that we will hear anything from Immigration Headquarters until those coordinating meetings are completed, details determined, and instructions issued to Immigration Offices, or in the case for applicants for an O-A Visa, instructions from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to Thai/Embassy Consulates worldwide.

[Undaunted]

the Ministry of Health is just now coordinating implementation with Immigration and results are not expected until July. Thus, it is unlikely that we will hear anything from Immigration Headquarters until those coordinating meetings are completed, details determined, and instructions issued to Immigration Offices, or in the case for applicants for an O-A Visa, instructions from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to Thai/Embassy Consulates worldwide.

Thus, no need for speculation until there is an official statement of clarity from Immigration!

[Gaybutton]

or that he meant it will apply to those seeking an extension of stay at Thai Immigration if they initially entered Thailand using an O-A Visa.

Based on what I am reading, that seems to be the main point of confusion now - whether mandatory health insurance applies if a person's first retirement visa was an O-A, no matter what visas, extensions, or whatever, were granted ever since.

I agree with Undaunted in that we're really not going to know until the official rules come out. I just hope that when they do, the rules will be clear, nobody will have to be confused anymore, and all immigration offices will have to abide by the published rules instead of making up their own. Why do I think that won't be the case and there will still be plenty of anxiety and confusion . . . ?

[Undaunted]

If and when Immigration deems it necessary to clarify its policy it is perfectly clear that for now an “O” visa is the visa of preference as the visa that is referred to as an “0-A” is the one that needs minimum health insurance requirements to satisfy Thai Immigration.......this can only change if Immigration deems it necessary.

[Gaybutton]

GB,

The link below will take you to the THI - Thai Health Insurance website. They apparently offer "Outpatient" polices.

https://www.thailand-health-insurance.c ... utpatient/

I said I would check with them and post once I heard from them. Today I heard from them. Unfortunately they do not sell outpatient-only coverage. Like most health insurance companies, outpatient coverage is only offered in conjunction with an inpatient policy.

Part of the problem is when immigration changes the rules in the middle of the game, they grandfather in the new rules. That puts people like me, who opted out of outpatient coverage, in a potential bind. The only thing I can think of to do to meet this 40,000 baht outpatient nonsense is to open a separate Thai bank account, deposit 40,000 baht, never touch it, and hope immigration will accept that as self-insured outpatient coverage. At least that would be 40,000 baht coverage with zero deductible . . .

That's what I'm going to do as a "just in case" if they ever make O visa holders prove outpatient coverage of 40,000 baht. Unless someone has a better suggestion, I can't think of anything else to do.

[fountainhall]

Granted we are speculating here, but there is a key difference which I believe does go some way to explaining why the health insurance might now apply to O-A and not O visas. An O-A issued overseas, which is how I started the process, along with a re-entry permit can effectively give an individual one year and 364 days residence provided he leaves for a day on the last day of the first year.

I doubt if the Committee considering health insurance requirements will take anywhere near that long to finalize their plans for those already here on O visas. So it makes some sort of sense to start the ball rolling with those now applying for O-As. Once the intricacies of a health insurance requirement have been thrashed out, those on O visas will fall under the scheme. I have more faith in a committee of doctors to know the problems of insurance than I do the Immigration Department even to comprehend most of the problems of long-stay retirees!