Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Undaunted » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:20 pm

"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by ISAC69 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:40 am

"Even the BBC has waded into the TM30 saga, reporting earlier this week on the problems faced by an American teacher who was fined after her landlord failed to report her stay."

Ridicilous the poor American was fined instead of her landlord !

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Undaunted » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:07 am

ISAC69 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:40 am
Ridicilous the poor American was fined instead of her landlord !
Probably went into someone’s pocket :!:
"In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Gaybutton » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:27 am

Undaunted wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:07 am
Probably went into someone’s pocket :!:
Why do I think there is no need for the word "probably" in that sentence . . . ?

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Gaybutton » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:27 am

Kang calls for TM30 immigration review

Foreign chambers chief urges drastic overhaul, says Thailand's image destroyed

9 Sep 2019

In an interview with the Bangkok Post, chairman of the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT) Stanley Kang called for the government to review the enforcement of the draconian TM30 immigration reporting regulation for expatriates, overseas students and foreign retirees, citing a slew of negative impacts not only on those affected but also on investment from abroad and the country's image.

Basically, landlords who provide accommodation to foreigners are required to report the foreigners' presence to immigration officials within 24 hours of their arriving or leaving the accommodation. Meanwhile, foreigners are also obliged to report their whereabouts within 24 hours when they stay at locations other than their primary residence, even if they visit other provinces on short breaks or are returning to Thailand from abroad. Those who fail to comply, both Thais and foreigners, face hefty fines while non-renewal of long-stay visas is also a possibility.

What are the problems with the TM30 regulation?

A huge number of foreigners travel or do business in Thailand. You can see the massive amount of arrivals and departures at the airports. People board flights like they are taking taxis.

There is no problem with those [foreigners] staying at hotels because the staff there file reports [with immigration] two times a day. However, what should I do if I arrive at and leave my rented accommodation every week? It is burdensome for landlords to file TM30 forms for their foreign tenants.

Most importantly, even landlords don't know they are required to notify immigration officials [when foreigners come and go]. When foreigners come to Thailand, they travel to other provinces on the weekends. Most of them stay at hostels, which do not file TM30 reports.

Our members have said that some guesthouses are now putting up "no foreigners" signs [to avoid difficulties]. I am now hesitant to let my foreign friends stay overnight with me because I have to file TM30 reports for them.

What are the JFCCT's proposals?

We are proposing regulatory reform. I understand the TM30 regulation was enforced in 1979 to keep tabs on an influx of migrant workers from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. Employers [of migrants] have to provide housing and file reports when they enter and leave the country once or twice a year. However, this is different from business travellers. Regulators should not treat all foreigners the same way.

We suggest certain groups be removed from the TM30 regulation [reporting requirement]. Work permit holders with business visas should be exempt because companies have built or rented accommodation to them.

Similarly, retirement visa holders should be exempt from the requirement because they have received permission to live here and have permanent places of residence and paid deposit money. For example, my mother has a retirement visa and has bought her own condominium. When she enters and leaves her home, she has to file TM30 reports, both as a landlord and a tenant. It is all very complicated.

Foreign students should be removed from the requirement. When they study here, they often travel to other provinces on weekends. Do you want to lock them up in their rooms?

Expats with long-term visas should not be subject to the TM30 requirement because they normally file 90-day reports [of their current addresses]. Visitors who are not staying in registered hotels [hostels and personal residences] should also be exempt from this regulation.

Will TM30 affect assessments of the ease of doing business in Thailand?

Of course it will. Landlords are now unwilling to rent accommodation to foreigners working here because it is burdensome for them to file TM30 reports. Thailand has many foreign professionals. For instance, thousands of Japanese expats often go on business trips. Do you think landlords can put up with the onerous task of submitting TM30 reports?

Can the TM30 regulation prevent criminals from hiding out in Thailand?

I agree national security matters because terrorism is widespread. However, other security measures are already in place. The TM30 regulation has caused difficulties for law-abiding foreigners to the extent that it has destroyed Thailand's image. I don't think criminals file reports on their own whereabouts.

Some people have told me that Singapore hands out Sim cards that can track users. The TM30 regulation is outdated. Regulators should be one step ahead of criminals and should not treat all foreigners as if they are in the same category.

When Thais go abroad and stay overnight, do you think landlords have to file reports for them? Asean countries don't enforce reporting rules. Thailand is the exception. When I visit Vietnam, I can travel around the country freely.

Does the TM30 rule aim to tackle the illegal renting of properties?

It is possible, but better ways should be found. When I rent a condo, I have to sign a one-year contract, which I can use to renew my visa. However, the TM30 rule makes it more difficult. How can landlords know when their foreign tenants arrive or leave their condos? How can they report their presence?

Officials are now asking for TM30 forms from foreigners when they extend their visas. If expats don't have these documents [which they should have received from landlords in the first place], they will be fined. It doesn't make sense.

Has the JFCCT raised the matter with the Immigration Bureau or the government?

We meet ministers, but as you know, the new government has just taken office and must have been busy. Accordingly, I am not in a hurry to meet them. I have to take some time to see how we can work with the coalition government. When they are free, I will discuss the matter with them.

Meanwhile, we have studied the TM30 regulation and the complaints which have come in since its strict enforcement in March. As more and more expats have been crying foul, the JFCCT has reached a unanimous decision that I should voice concerns about the issue.

Will the TM30 rule gain more traction if the bureau improves its online reporting system?

I would like to ask how Thai people view the TM30 regulation. If your foreign friends come and stay at your place, will you file paper or online reports for them every time? National security does matter, but where is our privacy?

Instead of enforcing the TM30 rule, authorities should screen foreigners before giving them visas and letting them enter the country. Officials should simplify and improve procedures to make them more efficient. The number of foreign criminals here makes up a very small portion of all the expats in Thailand.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... ion-review

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Undaunted » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:56 am

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by fountainhall » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:35 am

Undaunted wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:56 am
TM30 discussions continue:

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/ ... -tm30-laws
Not sure how this continues the discussion as it merely repeats many issues raised by the earlier Bangkok Post article posted by GB! :o :o

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:47 am

fountainhall wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:35 am
Not sure how this continues the discussion as it merely repeats many issues raised by the earlier Bangkok Post article posted by GB! :o :o
To me, the point is, as usual, all talk and no action.

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Gaybutton » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:44 pm

Still plenty of talk - and no action. Of course, since this law has been virtually ignored for many years, I suppose it hasn't occurred to the powers-that-be that since even they agree the law is outdated and definitely needs to change, they could simply continue ignoring it until changes are put in place. In my opinion the usual response, "The law is the law," is an inappropriate response when they know and agree that the law just doesn't work anymore and really never did. If they know the law is nonsense, why are they suddenly bothering, after so many years, to enforce it?

There are plenty of bizarre laws still on the books in many countries throughout the world. When a law gets ridiculous enough, even though it is still on the books, if it is ever enforced it would most likely be laughed right out of court. Case in point: In Pennsylvania state law requires that you stop every mile to send up a rocket signal. That law is actually on the books. I'd love to know how and why it ever got there and whether it ever was enforced. I wonder if Walmart in Pennsylvania sells the necessary rockets, or whether local auto parts stores carry them . . .

I come from Florida, which has some of the all time greats:
1. Having sexual relations with a porcupine is illegal.
2. You may not fart in a public place after 6:00pm (I hope I don't have gas at 6:01pm. I also need to know at what time it becomes legal again.)

Let's not forget the UK. Here's a few of your laws, actually on the books:
1. A bed may not be hung out of a window.
2. Committing suicide is classified as a capital crime.
3. And my favorite: It is legal for a male to urinate in public, as long it is on the rear wheel of his motor vehicle and his right hand is on the vehicle.

I think we have a few board members from Switzerland. Here are a couple of yours:
1. A man may not relieve himself while standing up, after 10:00pm
2. It is illegal to flush a toilet after 10:00pm (You better not eat a lot of prunes at that hour.) I flushed at 9:59pm. Whew! Just made it.

Here is another actual Thai law: It is illegal to leave your house if you are not wearing underwear. - I'm wondering how they check to make sure people are in compliance. My question is: Is it then legal to leave your house if you are wearing only underwear?

But remember, folks - The law is the law, and all of the above are laws and are on the books.

Again, so far it's all talk and no action.

"Of course, dear. What did you expect?"
- Gladys Cooper (Mrs. Higgins), 'My Fair Lady'
_____________________________________________________

Immigration chief: TM 30 law is outdated and needs to change

September 12, 2019

Thai immigration chief Lt-Gen Sompong Chingduang has told BBC Thai that the 1979 TM 30 law is outdated and needs to change.

The news will come as music to the ears of expats and retirees though it remains to be seen exactly what will change, notes Thaivisa.

The BBC Thai said that moves are underway to adapt TM 30 regulations to bring them more in line with conditions in Thailand forty years after they were brought in.

Lt-Gen Sompong has reportedly told the BBC in a phone conversation that he is aware of the problems after a storm of online criticism of the regulations.

These relate to foreigners like expats and retirees having to report their whereabouts if they leave their home address for 24 hours or more. What role landlords should play has also created many problems.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/112304 ... to-change/

For tourists this is normally not a problem as the reporting is usually done by hotels and guest houses.

The immigration chief added that since August 31st developments have been put in place to "relieve the problems being experienced by foreigners residing in the country".

He was tight lipped about exactly what these would entail saying there were many things to consider such as the economy, tourism and national security.

BBC Thai said that Lt-Gen Sompong had called the 1979 regulations out of date and there needed to be changes to bring them in line with the modern day situation in Thailand.

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Re: Be sure your TM30 is filed with Thai Immigration

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:51 pm

If anyone hasn't spotted it yet, see: https://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9999

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