Police Bust Sunee Camel Jockeys

[fountainhall]

I think you missed this post

Yes I did. Apologies to undaunted.

[mahjongguy]

Yes, of course it's racist. Unlike gwei lo and farang, camel jockey isn't an old expression that has evolved into just a harmless term meaning foreigner. The difference is the intent: it's meant to convey disgust. Here's a test for racist remarks: if one of them was standing in front of you holding a machete, would you say it to their face?

From reporting in past years it seems these kids are from Kuwait. Much better -and not racist- to refer to them as Kuwaiti assholes, because that's specific and factual.

[Dodger]

It's the true intent of the "words" a person uses to describe a person, a culture, a nation a race, etc., that would determine if in fact those words were embedded in racism, or, merely a poor choice of words resulting as an emotional response to a situation. Things like anger, jealousy and fear come to mind. It's nearly impossible for anyone to really know the true intent of a person's words with the exception of people who are just openly racist.

Using myself as an example, I don't' have a single racist bone in my body. I simply wasn't raised that way. I grew up in a very culturally diverse neighborhood in Chicago having friends of all races. I joined the military on Nixon's "Buddy Play" with 3 of my closest childhood friends: Percy Riley (black), Rodrigo Barone (Mexican) and Tim Brennan (a crazy Irishman). My best friend of 20 years after the military was Iftakhar Hosan (Afghanistan) who stood as Best Man at my wedding, and I now go to bed every night with a boy from Thailand.

You (meaning anyone) can interpret the term I used in describing the Arabs in the Soi Yensaibai area any way you choose. The true intent of the "term" I used was in reaction to anger - not in any stretch of the imagination intended as being racist. Only I know my true intent. If they were a poor selection of words so be it. The Arab's we're talking about are total assholes, plain and simple. They have been endangering the lives of people for several years now and if I could think of a nastier term than "camel jockey" I'd be inclined to use it.

[RichLB]

I personally think that Political Correctness is not always good thing.

I agree with the quoted snippet, but there is a difference between "political correctness" and bigotry. Besides, racism isn't likely to be very persuasive. Denigrating an entire population of a people for the behavior of a few masks the objectionable behavior. Besides it makes it difficult for those in that poplulation to call out their fellow countrymen.

[Jun]

I personally think that Political Correctness is not always good thing.

Agreed. PC seems to stop people raising critical issues and difficult issues.

For example, we're expected to be tolerant of religions with leaders who are intolerant of our rights to behave as we see fit.

[Gaybutton]

I don't believe for one second that anyone here means to condemn an entire population because of the actions of a couple dozen idiots haunting the Sunee Plaza area and I don't believe anyone here is a racist. Does anyone reading this truly believe that was what was meant?

As far as I'm concerned, it's the behavior of those motorbike maniacs that was meant - that, and only that.

From what I'm reading, both here and on the Sawatdee board topic, those who are so offended by the term have yet to post one word about the behavior of the people that inspired the topic in the first place. A totally innocent woman was killed because of that behavior and over the years a lot of people, including me, came very close to being killed or injured - and some of us many times more than once. Those street barriers in Sunee Plaza itself - what do you think they were put there for?

I'm far more concerned about the behavior of that specific group than worrying about whether some find the terminology to be offensive or politically incorrect.

As much as Undaunted and I have sparred over the years, I am with him on this one.

[Dodger]

Here's a test for racist remarks: if one of them was standing in front of you holding a machete, would you say it to their face?

That's not a test of racism - that's a test of intelligence.

If a person is making derogatory remarks or racist insinuations towards an entire culture, county, religion, etc. that pretty much sounds like racism to me. If the remarks, regardless of how derogatory or racist they sound, are focused on an individual or group of individuals who deserve the ridicule they're receiving because of their actions against others, then that's just the way the world turns. All's fair in horseshoes and hand grenades as they say. I guess the moral here is: If you don't want people slamming you with ridicules (racist sounding or not) don't be an asshole.

Two of my favorite comedians when I was growing up were Archie Bunker and Redd Foxx. Both used terms when describing Black and White cultures that made the producers hair curl at first. Then after gaining wide-spread public approval (both, Blacks and Whites) who did not view the intent of these extremely racist sounding jokes as actually being "racist" at all, but just meant for the sake of HUMOR, the shows (and the jokes) were allowed to continue. All in the Family and Sanford & Son were two of the longest running and successful weekly programs in TV.

[SP55]

Here's a test for racist remarks: if one of them was standing in front of you holding a machete, would you say it to their face?

Are you claiming Arabs have some kind of sick twisted culture where they would kill someone just because they feel their "honor" has been insulted by a simple word?

[Jun]

If a person is making derogatory remarks or racist insinuations towards an entire culture, county, religion, etc. that pretty much sounds like racism to me.

I think this is incorrect.
Race is something you're born with & cannot change.

Religion is entirely voluntary, or at least should be in civilised societies. You can change religion, or abandon it all together. People of different races may follow the same religion. People of the same race often follow different religions.
Also some religions are intolerant of other faiths, beliefs, homosexuality etc. So since certain religions are critical of our behaviour, I feel we're quite entitled to be critical of them. In fact, if they are permitted to criticize us and not vice versa, that in itself is discrimination.

Also countries often have multiple races living in them. So it's not the same thing.

[gerefan]

Those street barriers in Sunee Plaza itself - what do you think they were put there for?

Absolutely. But the Jockeys just ignore them.
I’ve been in Sunee a lot recently and I’m sure others have been put out by these bloody bikes driving in endless circles through the plaza ignoring barriers and angry customers.

I went to Jomtien yesterday and the difference in atmosphere was amazing.

This is what is going to kill off Sunee as much as anything else.

And to give you an example of the jockeys behaviour this week. On the day of the raid one Jockey drove through the plaza and saw the cops at Soi 17. He did a quick U turn and raced back towards the barrier he had just ignored. Our moving it into his path didn’t deter him and he drove straight through it crashing to the ground at our feet.