TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

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TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:43 pm

I think this announcement merits its own topic. I believe this solves the problem of having to file a TM28 form every time you travel somewhere in Thailand and again every time you return home. That's my take on it. It doesn't specifically say this also applies to expats holding the retirement visa, but I think the implication is clear enough that it does. I believe that once immigration clarifies this, which they should have done in the first place, it will be clear that it does apply to retirement visa holders. Why wouldn't it?
________________________________________________________________________

Image

Yesterday evening an image began to go viral, which was confirmed to be official this afternoon, in which Immigration announced on their website that most foreigners do not need to notify immigration when traveling around the country over 24 hours.

As has been extensively reported in the news media, including our own web site, the confusion began in March when Immigration began to enforce a law from 1979 stating that a foreigner must notify when leaving their residence over 24 hours and that a landlord must notify that a foreigner is staying at their place of residence. These two forms are TM28 and TM30.

It would appear that the announcement, which was brief, specifically refers to the TM28 portion, of the foreigner needing to report. It also seems unclear if it is tourists and business and education VISA holders and not retirement or marriage/family VISA holders.

It also makes no mention of if a landlord or owner of the property will still need to file a TM30 that a foreigner is staying at their address within 24 hours.

The announcement appears to be a response to major groups of Foreign business owners showing great concern over the rules that would cause issues to traveling foreign business people in the past few weeks. The head of Thai Immigration held an interview with BBC Thai late last week in which he stated that the rules needed to change and were outdated.

Clarification is being sought from Immigration by multiple major news agencies.

https://thepattayanews.com/2019/09/13/t ... ns-remain/

See also: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/n ... ce?click=1

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Dodger » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:30 am

Either the person in Immigration who published this slide was totally incompetent and unintentionally omitted all of the temporary stay categories (including retirement), or there is some reason why some of the categories have been omitted.

Below are the "Temporary Stay" categories as defined in the Immigration Act BE 2522

Diplomatic or Consular Missions
Performance of official duties
Touring
Sporting
Business
Investing under the concurrence of the Ministries and Departments concerned.
Investing or other activities relating to investing subject to the provisions of the law on investment promotion.
Transit journey.
Being the person in charge of the crew of a conveyance coming to port, station, or area in the Kingdom.
Study or observation.
Mass media.
Missionary work under the concurrence of the Ministries and departments concerned.
Scientific research or training or teach in a Research Institute in the Kingdom.
The practice of skilled handicraft or as a specialist
Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations

Note, that "Retirement" is not listed in BE 2522 categories, although "Retirement" is included on Thai Embassy Visa Website on this very same list in the "Other Activities" section.

There appears to be a major gap in BE 2522 because it does not address the legal requirements pertaining to "Extensions of Stay" for retirement purposes, nor does the Act even mention the word "Retirement".

One would assume (if that's even possible in Thailand), that retiree's would also be exempt from using the TM28 Report, especially when they are already doing the 90 day reporting.

Fingers crossed.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:50 am

Dodger wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:30 am
One would assume (if that's even possible in Thailand), that retiree's would also be exempt from using the TM28 Report, especially when they are already doing the 90 day reporting.
I think we are included in the exemption. I can't think of any reason why we would not be. I believe you said that even very recently when you renewed your retirement visa, you were not asked anything about TM30 or TM28.

In any case, what I think doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what immigration thinks. Hopefully we will have something quite rare from immigration very soon - a clear, definitive clarification that applies to all immigration offices . . .

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by travelerjim1 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:21 am

Nope...pure speculation.
Still awaiting ACTION ...
Tj

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:31 pm

Apparently I am wrong and those of us in Thailand on the retirement visa are NOT exempt from the TM28 rule after all. That is my take on the clarification. Neither the O nor O-A visa is included on the list of TM28 exemptions.

I don't know why retirement visa holders apparently are not exempt. Why everybody but us? That makes no sense to me and no reason is explained, but here it is:
________________________________________________________

Phuket Immigration clarifies TM28, 24-hour reporting ‘exceptions’

PHUKET: Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn Kumthieng clarified to The Phuket News today (Sept 16) a notice posted by the Immigration Bureau announcing that certain visitors to Thailand no longer need to report their change of address.

The notice, posted on Friday (Sept 13), read, “During the visit to Thailand, for purposes of tourism sports, business, investments, education, practicing of skilled craftsmen or specialists, aliens are not required to notify the competent official in case of moving their residence.”

Col Kathathorn this morning admitted that the announcement may be confusing.

“The notice announces exceptions to the TM28 requirement for foreigners to report their whereabouts within 24 hours of arriving at their destination,” he said.

“Specifically, it exempts any foreigners who enter Thailand for tourism purposes (including “TR” visas and tourists entering Thailand on visa on arrival and visa exemptions), sports visas (S), business visas (B), investment visas (IM, IB), education visas (ED, RS) and skilled craftsmen or specialists visas (EX).

“These people are now exempt from having to file a TM28 reporting their whereabouts,” he said.

However, Col Kathathorn stressed that only people staying in the country on these types of visas are exempt.

“The TM28 requirement still applies to everyone else not covered by these visas,” he said.

“Filing a TM28 is no longer required by these people because of the TM30 requirement, which mandates that owners of properties must report any foreigners staying there,” he explained.

“So the foreigner’s whereabouts will be recorded by the TM30.,” he said.

“But other foreigner staying in the country for purposes not listed in the notice must still complete the 24-hour reporting (TM28),” Col Kathathorn repeated.

Col Kathathorn explained that the immigration rule change follows a meeting held last Monday (Sept 9).

Asked when the exemptions came into effect, he said. “They are active now.”

Col Kathathorn also noted that the 90-day reporting rule for all foreigners staying in the country remains in effect.

“This is still required. Foreigners still have to report themselves to Immigration once every three months,” Col Kathathorn said.

The notice directed any enquiries about the rule change to the Immigration Hotline 1178.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-im ... TCEqsMW.99

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:03 am

This morning Pattaya News amended its headline. The article remains the same as posted above:
Pattaya News wrote:Immigration clarifies confusing notice posted over weekend about exemptions to filing TM28. Education, Business Visas are exempt.
Retirement, marriage and family are not.
I have no idea why, considering they trust us expats enough to live in Thailand, but apparently don't trust us enough to let us travel around the country without letting them know where we are and when we return home.

Maybe at some point they'll tell us why, but so far they have not given an explanation.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the immigration offices are actually going to enforce this nonsense.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Dodger » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:54 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:03 am
I have no idea why, considering they trust us expats enough to live in Thailand, but apparently don't trust us enough to let us travel around the country without letting them know where we are and when we return home.
The only thing that I can think of is they simply don't want to piss off tourists or foreign businesses operating in Thailand, because of the financial repercussions. The fact that Retiree's don't like the TM28 requirement presents no sizable financial risk.

I doubt that very many retirees are going to be bothered with this ridiculous report form. And Immigration lacks the capabilities of monitoring it anyway. I seriously doubt that Immigration will be interested in anything beyond the 90 day reporting from retiree's, and this stupid TM28 provision will stay hidden in the books for another epoch.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by 2lz2p » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:07 am

The TM.28 technically is a report required of the foreigner advising Immigration of their address within 24 hours of arrival. Filing the TM.28 is not enforced on anyone by many Immigration Offices, including Pattaya. The TM.30, on the other hand, is the form required of a property owner/possessor whether a foreigner or Thai. It is also required to be filed within 24 hours of a foreigner taking up residence in the property. Pattaya Immigration was previously not enforcing the filing of the form for retirees if they returned to the same residence that had previously been reported.

However, that changed within the past 3 weeks, reportedly because Immigration HQ got onto them for not enforcing it for those that leave Thailand and return, even if to the same previously reported address. Pattaya is now enforcing that requirement, but from reports I have seen are giving a 3 day period to file rather than just 24 hours. Pattaya Immigration has not changed their policy regarding travel within Thailand - no need to file a new TM.30 if you are returning to the same previously reported address.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Dodger » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:27 am

2lz2p wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:07 am
Pattaya Immigration has not changed their policy regarding travel within Thailand - no need to file a new TM.30 if you are returning to the same previously reported address.
For clarification purposes, I think you intended to say..."no need to file a new TM28 if you are returning to the same address" not TM30.

Also, it may be a good thing for retirees to be conscious of the fact that in the event they were to change their address, they should notify immigration and complete at TM28 to ensure your address records match when you go to do your 90 day reporting.

Example: If you were to move to a new address which did not match the previous address recorded by immigration when you did your last 90 day report, they could potentially fine you for not processing this change on a TM 28.

Personally speaking, this is the only situation I will be concerned with regarding TM28. I don't plan on moving - so TM28 will never enter my mind.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:48 am

I'd like to know what both the Pattaya immigration office and the Bangkok immigration office has to say about the TM28. The article says those of us on the retirement visa still have to do both the TM30 when it applies and the TM28 when it applies. Meanwhile some are saying not to bother with the TM28.

I'm guessing, emphasis on guessing, that officially immigration will tell us we have to comply with both, but unofficially will tell us not to bother about the TM28 upon returning home if you stayed in hotels that properly submits the reports.

If someone goes to immigration, please ask and let us know what they say. I won't be in Pattaya immigration myself until the end of October.

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