TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

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Gaybutton
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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton »

Dodger wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:21 am
The more pressure the better.
I'd like to see as much, or even more, pressure applied to put an end to the TM28 form too. So much of the battery of immigration laws defies logic. If foreigners are permitted to live in Thailand, then wouldn't it behoove Thailand to let foreigners travel around Thailand, spending money? Instead they create a reluctance to travel because of the paperwork and having to physically go to immigration. While I realize many people are just ignoring it, immigration could still penalize for non-compliance. The law is on the books. It needs to either be removed from the books or at least amended to make it sensible, easy, and put an end to penalizing perfectly innocent people.

Along with that, so many of us are forced to keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account when instead we could be out spending it.

They're talking about creating apps to do some of this reporting online, but that's already been in the talk stage for a long time and the online reporting they already have is fine, except for one little problem - it doesn't work. Other than that, it's great.

Meanwhile, since so much of this is self-reporting, I don't understand why it is even still necessary. It does nothing to prevent or solve crimes. The 90-day report, for example. Why 90 days? Who came up with that number? And why do we have to report at all unless we change residence addresses? What's the point?

Oh well, at least there is some indication that pressure is building on the powers-that-be to stop just ignoring these problems and maybe - just maybe - doing something sensible about it. Anybody holding your breath . . . ?

Oh well, there's always "The Geezer Solution"

"The day I don't like living in Thailand anymore, I know where the airport is."
- Geezer

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton »

It's about time! According to the article, there are so many exceptions to the reporting requirement that I can't figure out just who is required to file the TM28 form now. However, obviously most of us, probably all of us, no longer fall under that absurd requirement.

That requirement rarely applied to many of us in the first place because when you traveled away from your residence, most likely you stayed in a hotel, and the hotel did the reporting for you.

In my opinion, the next item that ought to be on the agenda would be getting rid of the 90-day address report requirement and make that applicable only if a foreigner changes his residence address. If they won't do that, maybe they'll at least consider making that report a requirement only once every 180 days or once a year.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thai Immigration scraps TM28 requirement for foreigners to report when away from their residence for 24 hours

By Adam Judd

February 20, 2020

Thai immigration have all but scrapped the controversial TM28 change of address reporting requirement for foreigners.

According to the new requirement, while TM28 is still listed, a long list of exceptions have been added, which for all intents and purposes means that almost no one is now required to submit a TM28 form.

The list of exceptions, covered in sections 2.2 and 2.3 includes just about every foreigner in Thailand, from diplomats and those performing official duties through to students, those working in Thailand, foreigners married to a Thai or who are a parent to a Thai child and those staying in Thailand for retirement.

According to the immigration website, the regulation regarding TM28 is dated February 14 but came into effect on January 28.

However, foreigners need to be aware that they are still required to inform immigration if they change address permanently.

The previous requirement stated that foreigners who had stayed in another province for more than 24 hours were required to inform their local immigration office when they returned.

The reality was TM28, which is listed under section 37 of the Immigration Act and has been a requirement since 1979, was seldom enforced by Thai immigration and hardly ever completed by foreigners after returning from an overnight stay elsewhere in Thailand.

Many foreigners, including those who have lived in Thailand for a number of years, didn’t even know the requirement existed.

At least that was the case until last year when TM28 briefly started being more strictly enforced by some immigration offices.

This coincided with immigration also strictly enforcing TM30 – the requirement for hotels, guesthouses and property owners to report foreigners staying at their address.

(TM30 often gets confused with TM28, with TM30 sometimes used as a kind of catch-all term to describe both but they are actually two separate requirements – and TM30 is still required.).

The sudden enforcement of both TM28 and TM30 resulted in Thai immigration being on the receiving end of fierce criticism from the expat community and foreign business leaders in Thailand, who said TM28 was not just inconvenient but archaic, draconian and not fit for purpose today.

The updated regulation regarding TM28 can be found on the Immigration website:

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?cont ... 02b11f9cb9

https://thepattayanews.com/2020/02/20/t ... -24-hours/

Read more on Thai Visa: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/114932 ... -24-hours/

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Jun »

The whole thing is a pointless waste of time. Anyone intent on committing crimes is not going to report their location, so it's presumably just going to inconvenience law abiding citizens. And how many pensioners travel around Thailand committing crimes ?

To find crimes, they probably need to look closer to home. Starting with the brown shirt mafia.

I would have thought the way to deal with overseas people retiring here is to decide the requirements and then make the process as friction free as possible.

And, before anyone says it, none of this affects me at present.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton »

Jun wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:08 pm
I would have thought the way to deal with overseas people retiring here is to decide the requirements and then make the process as friction free as possible.
Maybe the Corona virus crisis will inspire just that. Thailand is already suffering a major tourism shortage as a result and it's going to be a long time before that problem and the impact of it becomes history and Thailand fully recovers.

The last thing Thailand needs right now is to also lose foreign retirees already living in Thailand and causing potential retirees to look elsewhere. These needless and ill conceived rules and restrictions have been doing just that. Abolishing the TM28 rules is a start, but hardly enough. I'd like to see Thailand get rid of other unnecessary rules and restrictions and make retirement visa renewals much easier. How about getting rid of the rule that forces so many of us to keep 800,000 baht untouchable in a Thai bank instead of being able to spend it? Along with it, how about also making it easier for a foreigner to even open a Thai bank account?

Some Thai officials have said things such as if a foreigner doesn't like the way we do things, go elsewhere. In my opinion such officials need to be much more careful about what they wish for . . .

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Dodger »

It only took them 70 years to figure out that TM28 wouldn't...couldn't...and never did work. And if it weren't for the pressure form the foreign embassies (and other foreign interests), it would probably still rotting on a cold rock.

OK, now that that's taken care of, next on the hit parade is for them to dump the 90 Day Reporting requirement for retirees. This is just another complete waste of time for everyone, i.e., retiree's and immigration staff. If they used their heads, or were forced by someone to get their heads out of their asses, they would just require notification of change of address (TM28) and be done with it. They could then take that new on-line application system that doesn't even work and shove it in the same place they just shoved the TM28 bullshit.

A retiree shouldn't have to do any more than renew their visa once a year...period!

Let them continue to solve their own problems!

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by Gaybutton »

Dodger wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:55 am
A retiree shouldn't have to do any more than renew their visa once a year...period!
I'd like to see changes in even that requirement. How about those who have lived in Thailand 5 years continuously without problems having to renew less frequently. And those who have lived in Thailand 10 years or 15 years continuously given some sort of more permanent status.

People who have come to Thailand to retire legitimately are rarely among the ones who ever cause trouble.

Oh well, at least they did away with one absurd inconvenience. Nothing wrong with hoping for more, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: TM28 problem solved? NOT for O or O-A retirement visa holders

Post by pong »

ON the news the last weeks: 2 such pensioners caught on heavy overstay. Both probably also came with the right intentions, may perhaps even be relieved of their nesteggs by some friendly Thai ladies, and then got caught as they had forgotten or could not fulfill all the draconian rules set for them, whilst happily living as a poor Thai and one even walking behind a Zimmerframe. I cannot really see their crimes, but it is how it is.
Khun GB-you forget the immense and totally needless amount of jobs being created by this system to keep a few 1000 of happy Thai civil workers in their light brown uniforms in a job. With even the chance to snap angrily at some nasty farang every now and then who did not comply with all the rules. Somehow this compares to what one has to endure whilst trying to enter that USA as a genuine innocent tourist but being treated as a potential terrorist trying to smuggle in any amount of illegal stuffs. Even that UK before it joined the EU did that too, and probably again after their transition period.

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