Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post Reply
fountainhall
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Bangkok
Has thanked: 222 times
Been thanked: 581 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Fri May 24, 2019 7:58 am

FAA state certification likely to be pushed back to "October or beyond."
FAA’s acting administrator, Dan Elwell, rejected the idea that the twin crashes involving the aircraft have shaken trust between foreign regulators and the FAA. He said the FAA and the other regulators remain in “constant, close communication”.

But he would not predict a timeline for certifying Boeing’s software fix. When asked whether plans to return the 737 Max to service in August were realistic, Elwell admitted recertification could be pushed to October or beyond.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... union-mcas

gera
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:46 pm
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera » Fri May 24, 2019 9:05 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1ST1T1
Reuters reports that Boeing 737 Max will be allowed to fly in USA by the end of June

fountainhall
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Bangkok
Has thanked: 222 times
Been thanked: 581 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Fri May 24, 2019 9:21 am

gera wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:05 am
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1ST1T1
Reuters reports that Boeing 737 Max will be allowed to fly in USA by the end of June
But a bit of misquoting and wishful thinking there. As the article actually states -
but the FAA representatives warned that there was no firm timetable to get the planes back in the air . . .

the FAA will not approve the plane for flight until it has completed a safety analysis, with no set timetable.

The path to getting the 737 MAX back in the air outside the United States remains even more uncertain. Canada and Europe said on Wednesday they would bring back the grounded aircraft on their own terms, not the FAA’s.

User avatar
Gaybutton
Posts: 16094
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Thailand
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 688 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Gaybutton » Fri May 24, 2019 11:03 am

The article actually says:

"The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expects to approve Boeing Co’s 737 MAX jet to return to service as soon as late June"

fountainhall
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Bangkok
Has thanked: 222 times
Been thanked: 581 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Fri May 24, 2019 5:07 pm

With respect, both you and gera omitted three important words - “sources told Reuters”.

Those sources may indeed be correct. On the other hand, the Acting Head of the FAA Dan Elwell, is quoted directly in the article as saying -
Elwell declined to answer questions about the private ICAO briefing. “The last thing I want is to put a date out there and then to have anybody, either the FAA, or you or the public drive to the date instead of the end result or the process,” he told Reuters at a briefing with reporters after the Fort Worth meeting, which he called “constructive.”
Another part of the article states this -
Even after the FAA lifts its ban on 737 MAX flights, airlines will have to spend about 100 and 150 hours getting each aircraft ready to fly again after being put in storage, plus time for training pilots on the new software, officials from the three U.S. airlines that operate the 737 MAX told Reuters.
That would surely seem to indicate that FAA approval will have to be given within the next few days if an end June date for passenger service is remotely possible. Time will tell.

gera
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:46 pm
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera » Fri May 24, 2019 6:10 pm

It is extremely important to reach the point where FAA will allow 737 max to fly in US. It will prove airworthiness of the plane no matter whether China (or any other bullshit country) continue to ban it. And I have no doubt that the plane is airworthy (and always was).

fountainhall
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Bangkok
Has thanked: 222 times
Been thanked: 581 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Fri May 24, 2019 10:06 pm

gera wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:10 pm
It is extremely important to reach the point where FAA will allow 737 max to fly in US. It will prove airworthiness of the plane no matter whether China (or any other bullshit country) continue to ban it. And I have no doubt that the plane is airworthy (and always was).
Always was??? So you are in total disagreement with all the pilots and the pilots unions who reported major faults with the aircraft?? Are you a commercial airline pilot?

China may be a bullshit country in your eyes. What about all the other countries who not only have already purchased the 737 Max and are losing vast amounts of cash due to Boeing putting an unsafe aircraft in the air - including Canada, New Zealand, Singapore, South Africa, India, Brazil and others? They count for nothing in your eyes? All, including China, count a great deal to Boeing!

I agree it is important it gets back in the air. But to have it in the air in just one country will do absolutely nothing for the reputation of the aircraft or for Boeing and its shareholders - to say nothing of the confidence of passengers everywhere in the future.

User avatar
Jun
Posts: 2252
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:20 pm
Has thanked: 230 times
Been thanked: 127 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Fri May 24, 2019 10:20 pm

gera wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 6:10 pm
It is extremely important to reach the point where FAA will allow 737 max to fly in US. It will prove airworthiness of the plane no matter whether China (or any other bullshit country) continue to ban it. And I have no doubt that the plane is airworthy (and always was).
Do you also believe the earth is flat?

China was correct to ban the plane based on the evidence of 2 crashes in very similar circumstances. Plus a smoking gun of a new piece of software that could cause these problems if a sensor fails.
Supporting that decision we see every other major country banning the plane And Boeing preparing a countermeasure.

A handful of planes resuming flights in the US is unlikely to provide statistically significant proof of safety in a hurry.
What they need is a proper FMEA with proof that sensor failure or other errors will not cause a recurrence of previous concerns.

fountainhall
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Bangkok
Has thanked: 222 times
Been thanked: 581 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Sat May 25, 2019 9:50 am

So much for the sources who claimed the 737 Max will return to service by the end of June. All US airlines have now extended the grounding of these aircraft until August.
United Airlines now plans to cancel all flights involving Boeing 737 Max planes until August — a month longer than previously announced.

The airline expects to cancel roughly 2,400 flights in June and July, a large chunk of the busy summer travel season.

"We won't put our customers and employees on that plane until regulators make their own independent assessment that it is safe to do so," United said in a statement. The company added that it will continue trying to automatically rebook affected customers on other flights.

United said in April that it would cancel all flights through "early July" because of the Boeing 737 Max grounding. The latest extension is through August 3.

The airline joins other US carriers — American and Southwest — that have canceled 737 Max flights until sometime in August
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/24/busi ... index.html

fountainhall
Posts: 2574
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Bangkok
Has thanked: 222 times
Been thanked: 581 times

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:46 am

Yet more trouble for Boeing's troubled aircraft.
FAA highlights new flaws in Boeing 737 Max planes
This is the headline in an article in today's Financial Times. It refers to findings by the US FAA that certain parts of the 737 Max may have been improperly manufactured. Boeing agrees and has issued a directive to all airlines owning the aircraft.
The US Federal Aviation Administration on Sunday highlighted new problems with some of Boeing’s 737 Max jets and an older model, saying that certain parts on more than 300 aircraft may not have been properly manufactured.

The US aviation regulator issued a statement warning that wing components that provide greater lift during take-off and landing, known as leading edge slat tracks, on the affected aircraft “may not meet all applicable regulatory requirements for strength and durability”.

“The affected parts may be susceptible to premature failure or cracks resulting from the improper manufacturing process,” said the FAA.. It added, however, that even a “complete failure” of the parts would not lead to the loss of an aircraft.

The disclosure related to 179 Max aircraft worldwide, as well as 133 older models called the 737 NG.

. . . On Sunday, the aerospace manufacturer said it had contacted airlines to advise them to inspect the slats on certain jets.

“One batch of slat tracks with specific lot numbers produced by a supplier was found to have a potential nonconformance. If operators find the parts in question, they are to replace them with new ones before returning the airplane to service,” Boeing said in a statement.
This potential flaw was discovered by Boeing only last Friday. Worryingly the parts in question affect not only the Max series but also the 737-600s, 737-700s and 737-800s. Boeing issued a service bulletin to airlines flying the planes and informed the FAA. The FAA will issue an airworthiness directive requiring airlines to inspect and repair its slat track assemblies within 10 days!

https://www.ft.com/content/14bc5b2e-858 ... ac2431f453
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/02/busi ... index.html

And a lengthy New York Times article using information from several Boeing employees analyses the disastrous chain of events which led to the use of only one sensor in the new MCAS system, why few actually assembling the planes even knew about it and why the information was not relayed to the FAA.
Boeing Built Deadly Assumptions Into 737 Max, Blind to a Late Design Change
The fatal flaws with Boeing’s 737 Max can be traced to a breakdown late in the plane’s development, when test pilots, engineers and regulators were left in the dark about a fundamental overhaul to an automated system that would ultimately play a role in two crashes.

A year before the plane was finished, Boeing made the system more aggressive and riskier. While the original version relied on data from at least two types of sensors, the final version used just one, leaving the system without a critical safeguard . . .

But many people involved in building, testing and approving the system, known as MCAS, said they hadn’t fully understood the changes. Current and former employees at Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration who spoke with The New York Times said they had assumed the system relied on more sensors and would rarely, if ever, activate. Based on those misguided assumptions, many made critical decisions, affecting design, certification and training.

“It doesn’t make any sense,” said a former test pilot who worked on the Max. “I wish I had the full story.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/busi ... crash.html

Hopefully the full story will indeed come out. And from all the information and leaks already published, it won't look good for Boeing.

Post Reply