Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

This week marks the most important of all the air shows - Paris. Airbus executives arrived with the announcement of US$11 billion in new orders and options for 123 aircraft. Boeing which usually tries to outdo the European plane maker with an even larger number of orders, had 0 orders to announce. This will be good news for Airbus which has taken a multi-billion dollar hit by announcing the cancellation of A380 production.

Against that Airbus has announced a new extended range stretch version of its A321 single aisle aircraft for around 200 passengers, the A321XLR. This will have a range of 4,700 nautical miles and easily be capable of flying many transatlantic routes, Tokyo to Sydney and the high density routes from Japan to Honolulu. This will offer airlines an ideal replacement for ageing 757s and should make transatlantic travel cheaper. The new aircraft has been in the design stage for almost 18 months and plans are to have it introduced by 2023. It will be in direct competition with Boeing's planned new mid-size single aisle aircraft, the NMA. But a final decision has yet to be made on that Boeing aircraft and it is not expencted to enter service until 2025 at the very earliest.

One question yet to be answered is: will passengers be content to fly for 8 or 9 hours in a single aisle aircraft? British Airways has a daily 737 service between London City Airport and JFK. But this is an all-business class service with flat bed seating and it has a stop in Shannon in Ireland where passengers go through US Immigration. Personally I loved the 747 in its various models and the A380 remains my favourite aircraft. But for those not used to travelling on wide bodies, single aisle aircraft will probably present no problem.
Air Lease CEO John Plueger told CNBC the XLR will be “a blockbuster” when first deliveries start in 2023. “This is in our view a true 757 replacement, but on a much more fuel efficient basis,” he said.
On the 737 Max front, realising that the longer the 737 Max is grounded and the more difficult it will be to win over passengers once the aircraft is back in the air, several commentators claim Boeing will be forced to think about a possible rebranding of the aircraft. In Paris yesterday the airline's CFO told Bloomberg that Boeing was open to this possibility.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/17/boeing- ... lainternal
Jun

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

fountainhall wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:01 pm One question yet to be answered is: will passengers be content to fly for 8 or 9 hours in a single aisle aircraft?
By my logic, it's all about the seats. If they fit the same economy or same premium seats, at the same spacing as would be applied in the larger planes, then I don't see a great deal of difference for the customers. I'm also presuming that the long range aircraft will have long haul style entertainment too.
fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

My one concern would be lack of room overhead. Will it result in a feeling of being crammed into a pretty small space? Best to try it I suppose and then find out.
gera

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... emium-asia
Good news for Boeing. Note that the chief of IAG (former pilot) expressed complete confidence in 737 Max and said he would fly it right now
(the plain was airworthy from day one).
fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

Very good news for Boeing - and the airline industry in general. But it's neither an order not even an option. It's merely a letter of intent for a batch of aircraft at what will have been a highly discounted price and at no financial short-term risk. Good for both parties. As the article points out -
“It’s a very strong endorsement and exactly what they needed,” said aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia. “Both sides get something great: Boeing gets an incredibly well-timed endorsement and IAG gets to buy planes at a very heavy discount, probably, with no risk.”

Boeing Gets a Big Win, But at What Cost?: Brooke Sutherland

By signing of a letter of intent instead of a firm order contract, IAG gains an insurance policy of sorts for a jetliner whose immediate future is still uncertain, Aboulafia said . . .

IAG “can firm it up as the situation gets clearer,” Aboulafia said.

For Boeing, “that’s the best win you’re going to get given the circumstances,” he added.
firecat69

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 »

Captain Sully testified in front of Congress. He says pilots must get simulator training of the possible emergencies . Cannot do it on iPads like Boeing would like to do. Interesting that he feels the simulator will give pilots muscle memory which is important in these type of failures.

https://www.scoopnest.com/user/WNYT/114 ... tch-live-/
Jun

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

firecat69 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:06 am Captain Sully testified in front of Congress. He says pilots must get simulator training of the possible emergencies .
Maybe, but a failure of a single sensor should NOT be causing such erratic changes of altitude. If Boeing are going to introduce all this fancy technology, it should be robust, with adequate rendundancy combined with plauslibility checks for dodgy signals.

One sensor failure should not be something that relies on deep pilot training for a specific aircraft to prevent fatal crashes.

The sensor should simply be compared with other sensors & disregarded by the software if errors are identified.
fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

737 MAX "was fatally flawed and should never have been approved."

This was the testimony before a Congressional Sub-Committee yesterday of one of the USA's best-known pilots and a hero in his own right, Retired Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger.
Sullenberger, who safely landed a damaged US Airways jet on the Hudson River in New York in 2009 after a bird strike disabled the engines, says he understands how the pilots of two 737 Max planes that recently crashed would have been confused as they struggled to maintain control of the aircraft, as an automated system erroneously began forcing the planes into nose dives.

"I can tell you first hand that the startle factor is real and it's huge. It absolutely interferes with one's ability to quickly analyze the crisis and take corrective action," he said . . .

"These crashes are demonstrable evidence that our current system of aircraft design and certification failed us," Sullenberger told lawmakers. "The accidents should never have happened."

. . . "We should all want pilots to experience these challenging situations for the first time in a simulator, not in flight with passengers and crew on board," Sullenberger told lawmakers, adding "reading about it on an iPad is not even close to sufficient. Pilots must experience it physically, firsthand."
Daniel Carey, president of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents pilots at American Airlines, noted Boeing's strong safety record generally, but he criticized the aerospace giant for making "many mistakes" in order to reduce costs, while still developing the MAX plane so that it would feel as much like the previous version of the 737.

"Boeing designs and engineers and manufacturers superb aircraft," Carey testified. "Unfortunately in the case of the MAX, I'll have to agree with the Boeing CEO, they let the traveling public down in a fatal and catastrophic way."

"A huge error of omission was the fact that Boeing failed to disclose the existence of the MCAS system to the pilot community around the world," Carey said. "The final fatal mistake was therefore the absence of robust pilot training in the event of an MCAS failure."

Carey says Boeing's failures have created a "crisis of trust" between the airplane maker and pilots.
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/73424871 ... n-approved

gera

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera »

If one wants to objectively discuss the situation, one should rely on facts. It is well established that in both crashes pilots made numerous mistakes and the critical sensor malfunctioned. I do not see how Boeing can be responsible for that. Grounding Boeing in US , Trump inflicted a major damage to the company and American National Security taking into account the role of the company in National defense. I expect certification of the plane within two to three weeks. But huge damage already done.
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Undaunted »

This is now really old news I am surprised that those who rehash news hear didn’t rehash this!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48691488
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