Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

Yet more delays. Southwest postpones reintroduction to October 1 at the earliest.
Southwest Airlines on Thursday said it would push back the reintroduction of the Max into its flight schedules until October 1, a month later than previously planned, cancelling about 150 daily flights, citing the “uncertain” return to service of the plane. Southwest is the largest 737 Max operator with 34 jets in its fleet.
https://www.ft.com/content/6b380b62-985 ... 5cbb98ed36
gera

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera »

I discounted articles in New York Times and pilot association opinions as biased. But this article persuaded me that Boeing is doing bullshit.
My experience with Indian outsourcing is limited. Some publishing companies (e.g. Springer) outsource proofreading of technical articles to Indians and I know first hand that these people doing total bullshit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... emium-asia
fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

I am glad you are coming round - at least in part - to the view of a lot of people about the Max problems and Boeing's particular issues. I fail to understand why pilots' associations should be biased, though. They have to fly the blooming planes and surely the last thing they want is an aircraft that they cannot control. Individuals who are members of associations obviously have a variety of views and these associations have to take all on board. But when it comes to safety, all of us have put our lives in their hands. I would certainly prefer associateions take a more extreme view when it comes to safety over stock price and bean counters. Captain Sullenberger brought his plane down safely without any loss of life. I'll take that man's view about the safety of the 737 Max over that of any corporate executive.

I do agree with you about proof-reading. Throughout my career I must have proofed many thousands of papers, documents and articles. I have a rule that the first check is for spelling errors and the second for sense. Even then, a third is often required when the concentration has to be at its most focussed because the brain tricks me into thinking it's all ok. How a non-native English speaker can accurately proof-read highly technical documents100% of the time is scary.

Worse news today for Boeing as reported on CNN. The DOJ is expanding its investigation into the 737 Max to the 787. This seems to be fact.
The Department of Justice subpoenaed Boeing for records pertaining to the Dreamliner's production in South Carolina amid claims of subpar work, the sources told the [Seattle] Times.

A third source told the [Seattle] Times that several individual employees at the Dreamliner production plant in North Charleston, South Carolina, had received subpoenas in early June from the "same group" of prosecutors working on the 737 Max investigation.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/28/poli ... index.html
Jun

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

gera wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:43 am My experience with Indian outsourcing is limited. Some publishing companies (e.g. Springer) outsource proofreading of technical articles to Indians and I know first hand that these people doing total bullshit.
My experience of Indian outsourcing is also poor:

1 Call centres. I suppose many of us have suffered incomprehensible or totally useless call centre operatives.

2 Engineering: Drawing checking -completely useless, with almost all the errors missed. Release data -incorrect. CAD layout checking diabolical -work done with about half the components missing & it's the kind of error every single member of the board would spot. Constant lies about when the work will be done. Buggering off on a training course for 6 weeks without informing us or passing the work onto a colleague. They are also partial to sending in presentations making all sorts of inflated claims about their capability. Ask a couple of technical questions and it turns out to be a sham.

Somehow, India seems to have a successful software sector, but not much else. I have heard horror stories about their design work on brakes and other safety critical parts.

Despite a lower inherent English capability, outsourcing to Vietnam worked way better. These people are sharp.
fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

Jun wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:28 pmDespite a lower inherent English capability, outsourcing to Vietnam worked way better. These people are sharp.
Would that be partly due to the literacy rate in Vietnam being over 95% with 98.5% for those between 15 and 35? The country's education system seems to yield quite extraordinarily high results. As does its economy.
Between 1990 and 2016, Vietnam’s GDP grew by a whopping 3,303 percent, the second-fastest growth rate worldwide, only surpassed by China.
https://wenr.wes.org/2017/11/education-in-vietnam
Jun

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun »

Well, the education system in Vietnam does seem remarkably good, although I have also read some reports of corruption in the education system. So I hope all the testing is conducted with out any cheating.

For outsourcing work, India SHOULD have an advantage as a significant percentage of their middle class grow up speaking English, which is as far as I know less prevalent in Vietnam. India seems to squander that with poor education, unreliable culture and a lack of aptitude.

I would think the high growth in Vietnam is due to good education, good aptitude and starting from a very low base, after the failed communist experiment. As you know, things were so bad people used to risk their lives trying to get to Hong Kong on some very shoddy boats. [All the dim witted Jeremy Corbyn supporters should read up on these things]

Vietnam is one of the countries where I like the fundamentals have purchased investment trusts & at times, a single country ETF. Although for the large caps, the Price/Earnings ratio is higher than I like.
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Gaybutton »

Before I step in and insist the topic remain about the 737 Max8 problems, perhaps somebody can convince me that talking about outsourcing to India and education in Vietnam has anything to do with with the 737 Max8 situation.

Do I hear, "Start a new topic" . . . ?
firecat69

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 »

AA and UA just announced they will not be flying the 737 Max aircraft before November at the earliest. Other airlines are likely to follow.
What a disaster for Boeing but they deserve it and should pay a lot more. Glad I don't own their stock!
fountainhall

Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall »

Well! It wasn't so long ago that some were predicting the aircraft was perfectly airworthy and would be certified by now. Fake news by The New York Times was blamed for what amounted to basically scaremongering. How many times over the last few months have we heard Boeing executives make public statements that the fix was ready (the first appeared on March 24!!) or almost ready and certification was just around the corner. Well it still ain't ready for certification trials and the major airlines are convinced it won't be ready for another month or two - at the very earliest. Some are even predicting that any return to service prior to January is wishful thinking in the extreme. That gives the airlines an almighty problem as they will have many fewer aircraft to cover the peak Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday periods. United was supposed to have 30 Max aircraft flying in the coming months. Now it is cutting 2,900 flights in October alone, more than double the number it had to cancel in July. Southwest has announced to its cabin crews that it is now overstaffed with pilots and no planes to fly them.
Senior Boeing executives and some FAA leaders have told government and industry officials they still expect the agency to be ready to lift the grounding in the fall, which presumably would enable the jets to resume carrying passengers before the end of the year.

But based on a history of previous delays and unexpected technical challenges, many of these officials said, at this point sentiment seems to be building that a conservative January timeline is more realistic.
In fact, we might be in a position to start a new thread because the 737 Max is already all but dead. Not in the sense that the aircraft will not fly again and be a perfectly safe aircraft. But it is unlikely to carry the "Max" name. The longer the delays in getting it into public service again, the greater the fear that the continuing lies from Boeing about the state of the aircraft and what precisely has been wrong with it has an anxious travelling public already fearful of flying it in future. Ryannair has already insisted that the name on its 135 Max jets be rebranded to the 737-8200. Some of their aircraft have already had their names changed as they sit idle in Seatlle.

Image
copyright: Twitter@AeroimagesChris

Ironically it was Trump who suggested months ago that Boeing should change the name, add a few more passenger comforts and totally rebrand the aircraft. At least he has done something positive from the Oval Office.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-737 ... 1563112801
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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fountainhall wrote: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:36 pm At least he has done something positive from the Oval Office.
I disagree. The only positive thing Trump ever does from the Oval Office is leaving it . . .
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