Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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Gaybutton
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Gaybutton » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:22 pm

Originally posted by firecat69, but appearing in the wrong place.
_______________________________________________________

Great report last night. Reposted after changing my time zone.


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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:18 pm

Jun wrote:The US authorities have not stopped operation of the plane.
Surprising considering it appears we have similarities between the 2 crashes.
There is little doubt that both cases are quite similar. They obviously correlate with two other accidents reported by US pilots. I personally have a full confidence in statistical data collected by Boeing and therefore I strongly believe that the plane is safe. The remedy for possible irregularities during ascend is PUSHING ONE BUTTON as reported by American pilots. Having said this, it is, of course, understandable that various nations suspended the flights. It does not excuse though the idiots from UK who banned fly over of aircrafts of 737 Max type.

Shares of Boeing are sharply down and it is probably a good time to buy.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:14 pm

2 crashes in such a short period and quite a bit of information the same thing happening to other flight crews , hardly makes the plane safe .

Is it a problem of training by the airline or Boeing or both. Probably . But Boeing has already admitted they knew there was a problem with the software and were working to improve it. Apparently they did not work fast enough and 350+ people are dead. They'll be plenty of finger pointing by various entities to protect themselves. Boeing will blame it on the airline because of crew training. and the airlines will blame it in Boeing.

IMHO ultimately it is Boeing's fault. They designed the plane which evidently had some major difference in engine placement etc. They then designed a computer program to recognize those changes and supposedly made it a priority for flight crews to understand the differences both in the plane and the computer systems.

Still must wait for the full investigation, but my guess they'll be plenty of blame to spread around.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:03 pm

The number of pilots who have commented on the 737 Max8 has increased to five. The database to which US pilots can send comments anonymously had one report from a pilot last November complaining that Boeing had not explained changes to the plane’s automatic functions, describing the flight manual as -
“inadequate and almost criminally insufficient”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... fore-crash
gera wrote:
Jun wrote:I strongly believe that the plane is safe.
Having reviewed new satellite tracking data that had just become available, Canada did an about face a few hours ago and banned the 737 Max8 from its airspace. There is now massive pressure on the USFAA to do likewise.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Gaybutton » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:12 am

Trump administration grounds Boeing 737 Max planes

By Kevin Liptak, CNN

March 13, 2019

Washington (CNN) - Facing mounting pressure, President Donald Trump said Wednesday his administration was ordering Boeing 737 Max jets grounded until more information is gathered about the crash of an Ethiopian aircraft.

It was a turnabout from the administration's earlier position, which deemed the planes safe to fly even as dozens of other nations banned them after they were involved in two fatal disasters.

Trump said the decision to ground the Max 8 and Max 9 was made in light of new information about last week's crash, which killed 157 people. The Federal Aviation Administration said new evidence had been collected at the sight of the crash on Wednesday, and that information -- along with new satellite data -- led to the grounding decision.

Until Wednesday afternoon, administration officials had insisted the planes were safe, bucking calls from lawmakers and airline labor unions to suspend flights until an investigation could be completed.

Even as he was announcing his administration's decision, Trump said the move was more precautionary than mandatory.

"I didn't want to take any chances. We didn't have to make this decision today," he said. "We could have delayed it. We maybe didn't have to make it at all. But I felt it was important both psychologically and in a lot of other ways."

Trump said his decision was fact-based, even as he admitted it was made partly with regard for the mental well-being of American travelers.
"The safety of the American people, of all people, is our paramount concern," Trump told reporters.

Planes in the air when the announcement was made were ordered to land at their destination and remain grounded. Though Trump said airlines and pilots had been notified of the decision, one of the airlines using the plane said it was still working to confirm the order.

"We are currently seeking confirmation and additional guidance from the FAA," a Southwest Airlines spokesman said.

Speaking with reporters on a conference call, acting FAA Administrator Daniel Elwell said the grounding of the 737 Max 8 and 9 came in light of new information, including from the flight data recorder and voice recorder.

"Since this accident occurred we were resolute that we would not take action until we had data," Elwell said. "That data coalesced today."
He said the new data tied the Ethiopian airline disaster to an earlier crash of the same model plane in Indonesia.

Elwell declined to guess how long the grounding would last but he said he hoped to keep it "as short as possible:"

Trump described the airliner issue as "a terrible, terrible thing" and defended the jet's manufacturer, which he has maintained close ties to over the course of his presidency.

"Boeing is an incredible company," he said. "They are working very hard right now."

He said the company was looking to find answers to the plane issue, but "until they do, the planes are grounded."

Full story: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/13/poli ... index.html

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:05 am

Gaybutton wrote: Washington (CNN)Trump said the decision to ground the Max 8 and Max 9 was made in light of new information about last week's crash, which killed 157 people. The Federal Aviation Administration said new evidence had been collected at the sight of the crash on Wednesday, and that information -- along with new satellite data -- led to the grounding decision.

Until Wednesday afternoon, administration officials had insisted the planes were safe, bucking calls from lawmakers and airline labor unions to suspend flights until an investigation could be completed.
More lies! The satellite data information Trump refers to has been publicly available for at least 48 hours, if not longer. His administration, the FAA and Boeing have been playing a game with people's lives.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:11 am

First of al Boeing did not ground the fleet. The FAA under pressure came up with a bullshit explanation for finally doing what the rest of the world had already done. Trump and his minions said there was new information. There was not. They finally bowed to the rest of the world . Trump wanted to keep those Million coming from Boeing for his next election run.

There will likely be new information and maybe we will get to understand the attempt at a cover up and the reasons for it.Of course as in most cases Money is the reason.

Trump as usual made an ASS of himself stating airplanes had become more complicated and the pilot had been removed from the equation. Ridiculous for now. I know I previously said I want a Captain Sully in the cockpit but the fact is Aviation is safer now then ever and it appears computers will continue to be more in control. The newest military jets are almost completely controlled by computers and at some point the human being will probably be removed from the equation at least in the cockpit.

But just like a human being can be flawed, so can a computer. The FAA has embarrassed itself and of course it all comes back to the man at the top of the US Government.

It is still possible the flight crew did not respond in timely manner to a computer malfunction. Until we know the altitudes and the speeds when and if the computer program put the plane into a dive , blame cannot be assessed for the actual crash . Was the response from the flight crew too slow or were they unable to respond . Hopefully the Black Boxes will answer that question.

But there is already plenty of blame to go around for Boeing , FAA etc.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:19 am

The question must now be asked: is Boeing putting unsafe planes in the air and is the certification process in the USA so deeply tied to the manufacturers that the FAA itself needs to be restructured? Grounding of the 787 after several cases of self combustion? Grounding of the 787 Max series after operating changes not advised to airlines and pilots and two fatal crashes with total loss of life? Something is wrong with the process certifying these aircraft.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:45 am

I did NOT write that I strongly believe the plane is safe!!
That post needs correction.
I have high suspicions that the plane has a defect and requires countermeasures! I imagine the fix will be by software.
gera wrote: It does not excuse though the idiots from UK who banned fly over of aircrafts of 737 Max type.

Would you care to explain your logic ? If there is any.
If a plane cannot stay in the air, it follows that it's hazardous to anyone underneath it, so banning overflying is logical. Now I see Boeing has followed suit and grounded the entire fleet. About time.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:06 am

fountainhall wrote:The question must now be asked: is Boeing putting unsafe planes in the air and is the certification process in the USA so deeply tied to the manufacturers that the FAA itself needs to be restructured? Grounding of the 787 after several cases of self combustion? Grounding of the 787 Max series after operating changes not advised to airlines and pilots and two fatal crashes with total loss of life? Something is wrong with the process certifying these aircraft.

Boeing is the best in its class (far superior to Airbus) and has excellent safety record. Trump made a huge mistake by ordering grounding 737
(you seem to be confusing 737 and 787: these are two completely different planes). If they continue to fly in US, it would be the best way to prove
that the plane is absolutely safe. I , by the way, have absolutely no doubt that this is the case. Because if there would be a crash in US, it would not be just an investigation: Boeing bosses would go to jail. Not only Boeing bosses but also US pilot association, transportation secretary Chao (who flew 737 Max after the last crash) expressed absolute confidence in the plane. Eventually it will prove to be the case but due to Trump executive order it will take long time and will be very costly.

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