Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

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Captain Kirk
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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Captain Kirk » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:45 pm

firecat69 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:30 pm
As usual with these type of things , it may take months before we have the definitive answer
It will take months as the bean counters search for a suitable scapegoat - as they did with Sully - for that is their default position. Circle the wagons, protect the money at all costs.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by firecat69 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:50 pm

But in fact they did not find a suitable scapegoat and they are unlikely to in this investigation. Too many eyes around the world and the FAA is already embarrassed enough . The truth will come out.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:54 am

The idiocy of the regulatory bodies in the USA in the wake of the recent Senate hearing was chilling! The USA was the last to ground the Boeing Max Jet because of an absence of proof!!! So two aircraft must crash in similar circumstances and be banned around the world before the US regulatory authories wait for proof! I fully accept that the Lion Air aircraft had suffered several problems and so definitive proof was no doubt difficult to obtain. But other US pilots had reported similar problems prior to that crash, sufficient surely to alert Boeing to a serious problem. That there were many similarities in the Ethiopian crash was blindingly obvious to many experts around the world. But not to the FAA.

Now two new Boeing aircraft types have had to
be grounded soon after introduction - the 787 and the 737 Max. Hopefully the licensing regulations or new aircraft will be completely overhauled. In the meantime, who would trust their safety to the next new Boeing jet? Not me!

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Jun » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:44 pm

fountainhall wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:54 am
The idiocy of the regulatory bodies in the USA in the wake of the recent Senate hearing was chilling! The USA was the last to ground the Boeing Max Jet because of an absence of proof!!!
Yes that is amazing. For me, the reports referring to the erratic changes in altitude of both planes were sufficient, since they identified similarities between the accidents.

Furthermore, the Lion air plane apparently had the same issue the day before that crash. Since regulators and investigators should have received and assimilated this information long ago, should they not have grounded the 737 fleet some time ago ?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... hnology-vp

Finally, a safety system that can cause a plane to crash unless it's switched off via some special procedure is a badly configured system. Ideally, the system should have several sensors or equivalent sources of data. Then when one of them steps out of line, the system can detect the error itself.

Finally, someone should be considering if the leaders of the FAA are fit to remain in their roles.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:49 pm

From reports coming out of Paris it seems the captain of the doomed Ethiopian 737 Max8 aircraft had followed the new instructions provided by Boeing after the Lion Air crash. When these did not solve the nose down issues, he switched off the MCAS. But the aircraft failed to respond. So he turned it back on again before plunging to earth. One pilot quoted on CNN this evening said if this is the case, then Boeing has likely created "a monster".

Now there are reports of more problems for another Boeing aircraft - the new stretched 787 Dreamliner. In the last few days Singapore Airlines has grounded 6 of its 9 new 787-10 aircraft. At least this issue seems to be a problem with the Trent TEN engine developed by engine manufacturer Rolls Royce. 18 months ago SIA's subsidiary Scoot had to pull some 787-9s out of service due to premature blade cracking in the former model Trent 1000 engines.

Problems with the new 787-10 engine surfaced after a flight to Nagoya last Saturday. The aircraft was rendered uncertifiable to carry passengers on the return sector. SIA sent an empty 777 to Nagoya to bring all the passengers to Singapore. The 787-10 flew back with just the flight crew on board. It turns out that premature fan blade deterioration last year caused several 787-9 models to be grounded and temporarily taken out of service. Airlines flying this model include British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Air New Zealand, All Nippon Airways, Scoot and Norwegian Air Shuttle.

https://mainlymiles.com/2019/04/02/sing ... -10-fleet/
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/rol ... blems-787/

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Captain Kirk » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:48 pm

Pilots followed procedure but the aircraft continued to nose dive. looks like the Boeing moneyboys will have to open their wallets.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:56 pm

Captain Kirk wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:48 pm
looks like the Boeing moneyboys will have to open their wallets.
In a very big way! Compensation to those poor souls who have died and to the airlines whose 737 Max jets are either mothballed or will not be delivered anywhere near on time will be high enough. Boeing has talked about a software fix. But listening to various experts today it seems Boeing may need some sort of humungously expensive airframe fix as well. Those larger engines set higher and slightly above the leading edge of the wings not only lead to a higher angle of attack they clearly affect air flow over the wings. At the least it seems totally new engines may be required.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by gera » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:54 pm

Actually, Boeing successfully tested software upgrade yesterday. Your posts are totally misleading. In particular, you miss an opportunity to improve your financial situation: Boeing shares are up 3 percent as I post.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by fountainhall » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:54 am

gera wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:54 pm
Your posts are totally misleading.
Not according to almost all the experts who have been reporting on these awful tragedies. So the software fix worked? Agreed - but just on one flight. Presumably the original Angle of Attack indicator actually worked many tens of thousands of times before it started failing near the end of last year - and it failed not only on the Lion Air plane as other pilots have testified. Boeing must be very concerned because it broke every rule in the book when designing airliners. It put a new so-called safety system into a new plane with not one, not two, not three backs-up systems. The Max series had NO MCAS back-up. The criminal lawyers will have a field day with that one in addition to all the other issues.

But I also agree that if the MAX does get back into the air, it will no doubt be as successful as the previous 737 models. So the financial blip, whilst painful, will be temporary. But would I put money into Boeing stock now? No way. First, I will not seek to gain a profit when a company has murdered over 350 people. Second, Boeing has now put two new different planes in the air that were not airworthy. The 787 Dreamliner batteries had not been sufficiently tested and it is only a miracle that one of the several aircraft that self combusted did not do so at 35,000 feet.

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Re: Boeing 737 Max8 Crashes

Post by Bob » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:05 am

fountainhall wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:54 am
.....when a company has murdered over 350 people....
I'm not getting into the pseudo-scientific part of this discussion and, while I can understand that an argument for negligent homicide is at the far reaches of reasonable argument, the word "murder" is not within that parameter in my opinion. Using that language simply detracts from the points you're trying to make.

I see no reason at this point to conclude that anybody at Boeing did anything intentional to cause this problem. The MCAS software supposedly was intended to prevent a problem whereas it would appear that unintentionally it caused one that led to the unfortunate deaths of a lot of people.

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