tree wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:23 amNot that easy ... what would you do?
My referendum would look like the following:
Please select your first choice and second choice options:
A Leave No Deal
B Leave With Deal
C Remain
If nothing gets 50% of the vote, the votes from the least popular option would be transferred, based on second choice.
In the unlikely event this gets screwed up, have a follow up referendum 7 days later.
I would expect the deal to be defined before the referendum.
This afternoon eleven judges of the UK's High Court decisively and unanimously agreed that Boris Johnson's cavalier decision to prorogue parliament for five weeks was unlawful. The judges also ordered parliament to open again tomorrow.
It is clear now that Johnson lied to the Queen when persuading her to agree to the closing of parliament. What his future will now be - I haven't the faintest idea! But his resignation has to be on the cards.
fountainhall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:11 pm
Boris Johnson's cavalier decision to prorogue parliament for five weeks was unlawful.
As an American who understands very little about UK politics (I have trouble enough understanding American politics), I don't understand why he would do that. Why? What's in it for him, especially if he lied to the Queen?
As I understand it, Johnson decided on the prorogation because he was afraid parliament would continue to interfere with his plans to withdraw Britain from the EU without a deal on October 31. You may remember he said "Out by October 31 come hell or high water!" You may also have seen the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, permit debates on a number of motions which have already made life difficult for Johnson. He wanted to ensure he had a free hand without interference.
However, he told the electorate and also the Queen that, as he was running a new government, he needed time to establish new policies before these are announced in the annual Queen's Speech. The Prime Minister has the right to prorogue parliament but he must get the Queen's approval. With 11 of the country's top Justices having ruled unanimously - and thus amazingly - in a landmark decision that Johnson's reasons were unlawful, Johnson has created a huge constitutional crisis. How he can avoid resigning or at least calling for a vote of confidence in parliament, I just do not know. If it comes to a vote of confidence, there seems no possibility of his winning.
Thanks to his own blustering and appalling treatment of his own parliamentary party colleagues, he has no majority in parliament. He inherited a minority of one, but then he stated that any member of his party who voted against him on a Brexit vote would be expelled from the Party. The result of that was that he had to expel 21 members, including Sir Winston Churchill's grandson and the Father of the House, Kenneth Clarke, who has been an MP for 49 years and a senior Minister in various governments. So Johnson now leads a party which has a minority of about 42 parliamentary votes.
fountainhall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:06 pm
How he can avoid resigning or at least calling for a vote of confidence in parliament, I just do not know.
Does the UK have anything similar to impeachment in case he does neither of those? Can the Queen do anything to get him out? And if she can, do you think she would?
The last impeachment in the UK was in 1806. Thereafter it was felt there are other more democratic forms of scrutiny. One MP did try to have Tony Blair impeached for his role in the Invasion of Iraq. That failed on the advice of the Clerk of the House of Commons that impeachment "effectively died with the advent of full responsible Parliamentary government."
Failure in a vote of no confidence should be enough to get rid of a Prime Minister. In the case of Mrs. Thatcher, it did not get as far as parliament. It was a revolt by members of her own cabinet that brought her demise. Then there is a leadership challenge as Teresa May faced last year. Had she lost, she would have had to step down.
The Queen is above politics and can do nothing about Johnson lying to her. I have no doubt there will be harsh words when they next meet. But she has no role in removing him.
Given the fact that the Justices were unanimous in their decision and that there is not one iota of doubt that Johnson's action was totally unlawful, other members of his cabinet are now similarly tainted. Politics in the UK are going to be extremely interesting in the next few days.
I have a feeling that the decision today by Britain's Supreme Court would not have happened in the USA. When you have a partisan court with its majority beholden to one of two parties, there is surely a much stronger chance of the Court as a whole siding with that Party.
I presume Boris will comply with the court judgement and reopen parliament. That would be the end of that issue.
His move was surprisingly popular, since parliament has had ample opportunity to vote on every form of Brexit, but they still failed to agree on anything. They also declined to vote for a general election.
So to close it down until he's had a go at renegotiating with the EU makes sense to many of us.
Also, if parliament tie his hands by saying a no-deal Brexit is unacceptable, his negotiating position is completely undermined.
A General Election would be a good idea. Then the voters have several choices.
Brexit Party: Hard Brexit, no deal
Conservative: Endeavouring to get a deal, but would leave with no deal + centre right economics
Liberal: Remain + centre left economics
Labour: Undecided sitting on the fence mess + hard left politics (this lot are nothing like Tony Blair).
Labour really deserve to lose a lot of their votes to the Liberal party.
Knocked me back when I heard the decision went against Johnson, didn't expect that at all. Whilst I found it amusing as it's always good to see politicians getting their arses booted I don't think it's a big deal at all. Predictably the other party leaders are calling for his resignation but he did ask for advice first from the Attorney General so it's fair enough that he took the advice given and suspended parliament.
