Boris Johnson

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firecat69

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by firecat69 »

It's not that I have any illusions about Boris, but the hope that one out of two will somehow rise to the occasion. I knew Trump was a piece of Trash my entire adult life. I knew he would be a disaster and he has succeeded beyond my expectations Unfortunately. I am just hoping that 2 of the great democracies of the world did not make the same disastrous decision. The parliamentary system is certainly completely different from the US and Prime Minister is elected by a few where in the USA we endeavor to have the masses decide who should lead the country. I'm not sure in the last 50 years either system did better.

But the world is becoming more and more dangerous ruled by dictators or want to be dictators. I certainly don't want Putin and Xi leading the world!
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Captain Kirk
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Re: Boris Johnson

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firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:44 am But the world is becoming more and more dangerous ruled by dictators or want to be dictators. I certainly don't want Putin and Xi leading the world!
Western leaders are just as bad as those in the East. Nobody has been elected to lead the world and thankfully so as I fancy if one was he'd think himself as big as this God chappie folk go on about. This "leader of the free world" title bestowed on whoever becomes US President is something I really dislike. Political leaders should concern themselves only with the country which voted for them. Unfortunately we get people who are consumed by power and greed who think they should have some say in the policies of countries they have no business interfering with just because they have more firepower. We have learned very little from historic mistakes. Fighting over pieces of land or for oil, money or religion or whatever else shows we are still a somewhat stupid species.
fountainhall

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by fountainhall »

I have thought about this a lot in recent years. Inevtably we have to put the present situation re leadership down in part to the times we live in. When I was at school my parents felt they had a duty to vote. But they always voted on a party basis irrespective of party platforms. My guess is that most of the country did the same. The governing needle occasionally swung one way and then the other but the people leading the parties who got elected ‘seemed’ to be genuinely interested in public service and in providing leadership.

Of course mistakes were made. When Harold Wilson devalued sterling in the late 1960s he went on television to say, “the pound in your pocket will not be affected.” That was clearly a lie. On the other hand, if there had been no devaluation, we know what happens when, for whatever reasons, a country has a seriously overvalued currency.

After three years in office Margaret Thatcher was a dead duck politically until she took what seemed a ridiculous decision to fight a war with Argentina over a tiny colonial outpost thousands of miles away in the South Atlantic. She came out of that as the ‘Iron Lady’ and sailed on as a sort of saviour for a few years. As her popularity waned, her party turned against her and her successor was about to be defeated at the polls. He scraped through but the party was still defeated in 1997.

Since then, the world we live in has changed dramatically. Major international issues have adversely affected individual countries. Financially the dot.com bubble crash and the 2008 disasters led by international financial institutions caused massive disruption to ordinary folks’ lives. A series of stupid decisions and wars in far off countries has resulted in immigration on an almost unprecedented scale. When the Home Secretary in Tony Blair’s government agreed in 2004 to scrap migrant controls, he and his officials estimated this would mean an influx of between 5,000 and 13,00 migrants a year over 6 years. That one decision resulted in one of the biggest immigrant inflows ever seen in Britain. In an interview in The Telegraph, Jack Straw admitted it was a “spectacular mistake”. Since World War II Britain had regularly taken in many migrants from former colonies. But as a result of Straw’s action, over that 6 years period 1.5 million immigrants arrived. Some had returned to their home countries and not a few UK residents had retired overseas, but the net inflow must be in excess of 1 million. In 2018 alone the figure stood at 258,000. Can any of us seriously believe that younger people do not feel betrayed by the older generation which rises to power?

These are not the only changes. Young people in general are far more international in their outlook than they were when I was a student. They are also far more motivated partly as a result of the internet and social media.

I believe that all the changes have created far greater instability within nations than was ever the case since World War II. The older generation has been especially affected. Unfortunately, in my view, this generation still believes it has a duty to vote and tend to vote for the same party. Yet, I am increasingly of the opinion that this generation – of which I am one – should not be the ones to influence the future of our countries. The 15 – 50 years olds are far more affected by a decision like Brexit as they have to live with the results for the rest of their lives. Yet, the analysis of the voting on that referendum shows that the young in general voted to stay in whereas it was my generation who wanted out.

When politics are ruled by those who will be in their graves within, say, 10 to 15 years, it is little wonder that so many seem to have given up on the political systems, especially the young. So my prescription for elections as our world moves forward is that there should be a mechanism which not just encourages more of the younger generations to vote but actually gives them a greater say. So perhaps there should be a multiplier added to the votes of those 50 and under. It might be as little as 10%. But it is their future and I believe they have to be given a greater say in the creation of that future.
Jun

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Jun »

fountainhall wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:05 pm So my prescription for elections as our world moves forward is that there should be a mechanism which not just encourages more of the younger generations to vote but actually gives them a greater say. So perhaps there should be a multiplier added to the votes of those 50 and under. It might be as little as 10%. But it is their future and I believe they have to be given a greater say in the creation of that future.
I strongly disagree. The typical youngster has not considered which policies are likely to work and which will fail. They haven't seen evidence of what has already been tested and failed. They will, on average, make less well considered voting decisions.

There are, of course topics such has climate change which are of supposedly particular interest to people who may be around for longer.
They might go to a climate change protests, but the same youngsters will leave lights and appliances on 24-7. Even postgraduate students behave like this & they are supposed to be educated.
firecat69

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by firecat69 »

Captain Kirk wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:28 am
firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:44 am But the world is becoming more and more dangerous ruled by dictators or want to be dictators. I certainly don't want Putin and Xi leading the world!
Western leaders are just as bad as those in the East. Nobody has been elected to lead the world and thankfully so as I fancy if one was he'd think himself as big as this God chappie folk go on about. This "leader of the free world" title bestowed on whoever becomes US President is something I really dislike. Political leaders should concern themselves only with the country which voted for them. Unfortunately we get people who are consumed by power and greed who think they should have some say in the policies of countries they have no business interfering with just because they have more firepower. We have learned very little from historic mistakes. Fighting over pieces of land or for oil, money or religion or whatever else shows we are still a somewhat stupid species.
Just Plain Ridiculous!!

Gee maybe the US should have stayed out of Hitler taking over Europe or the Soviet Union after that . Yes and the US has made mistakes getting involved in places like Vietnam but on balance if Democratic countries fail to get involved when monsters try to subjugate other countries to their will ,what will happen . Yes and I know it was in US interest to defeat Hitler because eventually he would have tried to cross the ocean with his tanks ( Good Luck with that)

Yes and it was in US interest to rebuild Europe under the Marshall Plan and to rebuild Japan . But it was even more in the interest of those counties we helped to rebuild.

I don't like the way Leader of the Free World is used and in fact most US Citizens don't like that phrase or even think about it. Yes sometimes the US makes a mess of it when they get involved and then there are times when leaders like Churchill beg the US to get involved and we have .

But who knows maybe there are some idiots in the world who would rather be ruled by the likes of Hitler or Stalin.
gera

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by gera »

Is Boris Johnson British Trump? Evidence suggests otherwise.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/uk/b ... index.html
gera

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by gera »

Captain Kirk wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:28 am
firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:44 am But the world is becoming more and more dangerous ruled by dictators or want to be dictators. I certainly don't want Putin and Xi leading the world!
Western leaders are just as bad as those in the East. Nobody has been elected to lead the world and thankfully so as I fancy if one was he'd think himself as big as this God chappie folk go on about. This "leader of the free world" title bestowed on whoever becomes US President is something I really dislike. Political leaders should concern themselves only with the country which voted for them. Unfortunately we get people who are consumed by power and greed who think they should have some say in the policies of countries they have no business interfering with just because they have more firepower. We have learned very little from historic mistakes. Fighting over pieces of land or for oil, money or religion or whatever else shows we are still a somewhat stupid species.
So, that is what Trump is doing: he conducts selfish America first policy. You sound like a Trump supporter who also seem to equate Putin who presides over bandit, kleptocratic state ( I cite Boris Johnson) and autocratic Xie (whom Soros called the most dangerous man of the century) with western leaders. These are absurd, nonsensical views.
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Re: Boris Johnson

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firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pm it was in US interest to defeat Hitler because eventually he would have tried to cross the ocean with his tanks ( Good Luck with that)
Especially since 4 days after Pearl Harbor, Hitler declared war on the USA. Also, Nazi Germany was trying to develop its own atomic bomb.
Jun

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by Jun »

firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:44 amBut the world is becoming more and more dangerous ruled by dictators or want to be dictators. I certainly don't want Putin and Xi leading the world!
Agreed. Putin presides over corruption and looks after himself, with little evidence of morals. Xi seems to be moving in the same direction.

firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pmGee maybe the US should have stayed out of Hitler taking over Europe or the Soviet Union after that .
The US did stay out of the war until the Japanese forced the issue with Pearl Harbour. Since then, the US has kindly stepped up to the plate when required, but European leaders should sill recognise the risks of relying on another state for defence.


firecat69 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pmBut who knows maybe there are some idiots in the world who would rather be ruled by the likes of Hitler or Stalin.

There are people who sit back and allow dictators to quietly take over their counties.

Putin has been voted in too many times & now has complete control of the media and so on.
Re-electing Erdogan in Turkey was a mistake. The Turks need to make sure he's kicked out at the next election, if it's not too late.
China has a president for life with a high concentration of power.
In the Philippines, they elected a leader who was effectively proposing to go around shooting drug addicts, with no judicial process. Without such checks & balances, it doesn't require much of a step to start killing opponents. Just like Putin
Whilst much earlier in the process, Hungary has elected leaders with good economic policies, but they have also started taking control of the media.

Then at the other end of the scale, there are also people who refuse to accept the mandate of moderate democratically elected politicians & cause massive disruption. Look at what is going on in France for example. The country NEEDS a lot of the policies proposed, but a certain proportion of the population seem to want a lifestyle way beyond what they are prepared to earn & also seem unprepared to make sacrifices to protect the environment.
fountainhall

Re: Boris Johnson

Post by fountainhall »

Jun wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:44 pmI strongly disagree. The typical youngster has not considered which policies are likely to work and which will fail. They haven't seen evidence of what has already been tested and failed. They will, on average, make less well considered voting decisions.

There are, of course topics such has climate change which are of supposedly particular interest to people who may be around for longer.
They might go to a climate change protests, but the same youngsters will leave lights and appliances on 24-7.
I will agree in part but also disagree. I accept my thoughts are more than radical and that the weighting for the age range perhaps needs to change - perhaps 25 to 60. As you suggest, the future is in their hands. But then aren't the results of Brexit also in their hands, for they will be stuck with it and the facts are totally clear - a big majority of younger people voted against Brexit. Over 57% of males under 50 and over 60% of females under 50 voted to remain. Why should policy decisions be made by those in the geriatric age groups? Take out the votes of the 65+ age group (where over 63.5% voted for Brexit), and there would be no Brexit at all and no Boris Johnson! I do not believe those over 65 should be in any position to influence the future direction of a country to such a massive extent.

Re climate change, there is no better example. In Europe it is a teenage activist leading the charge whilst elected politicians sit back and do precious little.
The teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg has chided EU leaders for holding three emergency summits on Brexit and none on the threat posed by climate change.

In a clarion call to Europe’s political leaders ahead of European parliament elections in May, the founder of the school strike movement said if politicians were serious about tackling climate change they would not spend all their time “talking about taxes or Brexit”.

In a typically blunt speech, she said politicians were failing to take enough action on climate change and the threats to the natural world.

“Our house is falling apart and our leaders need to start acting accordingly because at the moment they are not,” the 16-year old schoolgirl from Sweden told a standing room-only meeting of MEPs and EU officials in Strasbourg.

“If our house was falling apart our leaders wouldn’t go on like we do today,” she said. “If our house was falling apart, you wouldn’t hold three emergency Brexit summits and no emergency summit regarding the breakdown of the climate and the environment.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... e-movement

Look at the gun control movement in the USA. Elected politicians also sit back and do absolutely nothing. They are like terrified deer stuck in the headlights of the NRA. It is now the teenagers who have been directly affected by gun violence who are leading the charge.
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