It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

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bkkguy
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Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

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Gaybutton wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:31 amI can't think of any valid reason why this pollution problem couldn't have been resolved years ago. All it would have taken would have been strict enforcement of pollution laws that were there in the first place.
well no, I would suggest that what this would have taken is:
1) a government seriously determined to fix the problem
2) a government confident it has the support and co-operation of the various authorities that will have to enforce the measures required
3) a government confident the measures required will not significantly affect the businesses and powerful friends that support it
4) a government confident the measures required will not significantly affect the voters that will support it at the next election

how many of these conditions do you think have applied to any government here of any flavour in the recent past?

look at the language used in the Tanakorn Panyadee article - this is all just meaningless waffle, it reads like it could have been written by ChatGPT, but has this changed under any of the various governments in the recent past?

look at the language currently used in discussions of the issue in any of the various Thailand forums, but has this changed at all in the recent past?

I suppose the current tourism concerns are an interesting conflict between 3) and 4) above, but again has that changed significantly in the recent past??

when do you think we should realistically expect the problem to be addressed?
I can’t even be bothered to be apathetic these days!
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Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

Post by Gaybutton »

bkkguy wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:35 pm when do you think we should realistically expect the problem to be addressed?
That would depend on the way you define "addressed". They are addressing the problem right now, and have been for years - meaning talking about it and coming up with harebrained schemes. My favorite is the high pressure water spraying. I'm sure that does a commendable job of wetting the streets, but that's about it.

My own definition of "addressed" is the necessary steps were taken to end the problem, the steps worked, whatever it took to end the problem will be continued and maintained, and we are highly unlikely to see a major smog problem again. If that happens, then in my opinion the problem has been addressed.

Realistically should we expect that? Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

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I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps someone can provide a rational explanation as to what good banning burning until the end of April in all 17 northern provinces is supposed to do? What happens on May 1? New sets of burning and new sets of air pollution? Am I wrong to think of this as a harebrained scheme? Am I mistaken to include it on my "I Don't Get It" list?

I fail to understand why any of this burning is necessary in the first place. Hasn't anyone ever heard of plowing under or mulching? I guess it's quicker, easier, and cheaper to just burn it.

One more little thing - humans are not the only ones trying to share life on this planet. What is all this burning doing to animal life - their habitats, their susceptibility to respiratory problems, their ability to find food, their ability to avoid being burned alive? Isn't that important too, or is it only humans that count? If animals could talk, I'll bet many would say, "Hey humans, if you want to destroy your own environment and ecosystem and drive yourselves to extinction, go for it, but leave our environment alone. We were doing just fine until you humans evolved and started fucking things up for the rest of us. Leave us the fuck alone."

"Leave us alone. Do you hear me, Pole? Leave us alone!"
- Yul Brynner (Taras), 'Taras Bulba'

__________________________

NEB bans burning across North

by: Apinya Wipatayotin and Supoj Wancharoen

March 16, 2023

The National Environment Board (NEB) on Wednesday backed stronger measures to deal with air pollution from fine particle matter smaller than 2.5 microns (PM2.5). It ordered all 17 provinces in the North to cease burning activities until the end of April.

Siwaporn Rugsiyanon, a spokeswoman for the Centre for Air Pollution Mitigation at the Department of Pollution Control, said the level of PM2.5 had reached as high as 225 microgrammes per cubic metre (μg/m³) in some spots early this month.

Also, the number of hotspots from January to March jumped to 56,439 points nationwide, with 31,719 in the North. Of the latter, 80% were in forest land and 15% in farming zones.

Ms Siwaporn said the NEB has come up plans to deal with the PM2.5 pollution, including enforcing a zero-burning policy in both forest and agricultural zones in the 17 northern provinces.

Additional forest parks will be ordered to close if the situation worsens, which could see at least 92 forest zones operating under the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation closed.

"The department has authority to close more parks if the situation gets worse. But the service zone for tourists remains open. Only those areas that are potential sources of forest burning are being closed. Legal measures will be taken against wrongdoers.

Other measures adopted by the NEB include prohibiting purchases of sugar cane harvested by burning methods; limiting the number of trucks permitted to enter urban zones, and how long they can stay there; a measure to make artificial rain; and a plan to set up PM2.5-free spaces.

The NEB will also ask the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation and the Department of Royal Forest to reduce the number of hotspots in each forest zone.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Industry and the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives will implement a zero-burning policy in farming zones, including levying steep taxes elsewhere so import taxes for farming engines can be lowered, to promote alternatives to burning activities.

A "pollution clinic" will also be set up in high-risk areas, the NEB said.

Asst Prof Surat Bualert, dean of the Faculty of Environment at Kasetsart University, disclosed the results of a probe by the "Dust Detective" research team into the sources Bangkok's dust particles.

He said the main source of PM2.5 smog in the capital is from burning activities outside the city. It was essential to control activities in the agricultural sector to make Bangkok's air more breathable again, Asst Prof Surat said.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... ross-north
Jun

Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

Post by Jun »

bkkguy wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:35 pmwhen do you think we should realistically expect the problem to be addressed?
:lol:
Not in my lifetime.
Gaybutton wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:36 am I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps someone can provide a rational explanation as to what good banning burning until the end of April in all 17 northern provinces is supposed to do? What happens on May 1? New sets of burning and new sets of air pollution? Am I wrong to think of this as a harebrained scheme? Am I mistaken to include it on my "I Don't Get It" list?

I fail to understand why any of this burning is necessary in the first place. Hasn't anyone ever heard of plowing under or mulching? I guess it's quicker, easier, and cheaper to just burn it.
A temporary ban on burning sends the wrong message. Ie Burning is OK after 1 May.

What they need is a permanent ban, hefty fines for people who ignore the rules and jail for repeat offenders. Then send the army out to enforce it.

Tourists should stay away from Chiang Mai and deprive them of tourism revenue until they see sense.
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Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

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Jun wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:43 am Tourists should stay away from Chiang Mai and deprive them of tourism revenue until they see sense.
I agree with that, but I don't think it is far-reaching enough. This is going on in many more areas besides only Chiang Mai. Of course, most of those other areas are not tourist destinations, but I am not in favor of them going unpunished. The fines would be a good start. If I had my way, there would be a rigid law forbidding purchasing from farms that do this kind of burning.

I don't know if that would be practical, but one thing I do know - law or no law, these people are not going to stop their burning unless they are somehow forced to.
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Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

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Jun wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:43 am What they need is a permanent ban, hefty fines for people who ignore the rules and jail for repeat offenders. Then send the army out to enforce it.
blah, blah, blah!

apart from exercising our fingers, what is the point of continuing this discussion with statements stating the obvious like this when no government in the last 10 years has done this, and no government in the next 10 years will do this? even you freely admit this will not happen "in my lifetime"!
I can’t even be bothered to be apathetic these days!
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Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

Post by Gaybutton »

bkkguy wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:35 pm what is the point of continuing this discussion
Very simple. If you see no point in continuing, then butt out and stop reading this topic. Obviously others do see the point and nobody owes you an explanation. You don't get to be the one who decides when a topic should end.

I'd like to see, just once, you post something that is actually helpful to anyone.
Jun

Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

Post by Jun »

Current government policy seems intent on making pollution worse, with continuing road construction.
In Bangkok, the polluter is king, with typically 3 or 4 lanes for the traffic whilst the pavement is too narrow for a wheelchair in some places.

Even here in Pattaya, they appear to be adding a 4th lane at the north end of beach road. Closing the road to all traffic would make more sense.
Jun

Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

Post by Jun »

The current PM2.5 reading on my balcony in Pattaya is 26, so better than some recent readings. Was 13 in my room, with a filter.
Jun

Re: It's smog and air pollution season in Thailand

Post by Jun »

Nothing of substance in this "Clean Air Bill", see link.
They also refer to Gen Prayut blocking 3 previous bills.

The same edition of the paper refers to the construction of yet another road into Bangkok, so one more source of pollution.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/sp ... -fresh-air
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