Thai gift of citizenship doesn’t include expats and retirees
By Barry Kenyon
November 1, 2024
The Ministry of the Interior has clarified that Thailand’s new policy to grant to 483,000 foreigners a Thai passport and full citizen rights isn’t tailored for western expats. Following a government announcement earlier this week, some longterm westerners wrongly believed that a new residency opportunity had arisen for them. Retirees from UK and USA began phoning the immigration bureau for registration details and some even assumed that the move was connected in some way to taxation on overseas income transmitted to Thailand.
In fact, the new policy is exclusively aimed at immigrants, their children and ethnic minorities from neighboring countries (Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia) who have been living here, often stateless, for decades. Some even arrived in the aftermath of the American wars in south east Asia which ended with the fall of Saigon, Phnom Penh and Vientiane in 1975.
Ms Trisulee Traisanakul, secretary to the interior ministry, said that the majority of those identified were from Myanmar or were stateless from the so-called Highlands in unchartered or disputed border regions. The general idea was to help the immigrants obtain a proper legal status, stimulate the economy and make it easier for the identified groups to work legally.
Because of the steep decline in the birth rate, Thailand faces a very serious fertility crisis as the numbers of elderly increase dramatically whilst the working population shrinks year by year. By 2074 the native population will have shrunk by over 50 percent to around 30 million.
The Thai Department of Provincial Administration has long conducted research into the targeted immigrant groups and, where necessary, will allow self-certification in the filling in of citizenship application procedures. Thai citizenship includes the right to vote in elections and hold land in their own name.
Thai citizenship is governed by the Nationality Act of 2008 and is basically an invitation. The route for westerners is usually via permanent resident status which requires a successful history of legal employment in Thailand and/or valued contributions to Thai culture and society. The process of granting Thai citizenship is detailed, usually slow and heavily discretionary. None the less, sorting out the issue of immigrants from neighboring countries, together with their stateless children born in Thailand, has long been a government priority. This is now being seriously addressed.
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ees-478183
By Barry Kenyon
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Gaybutton
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Re: By Barry Kenyon
That would make perfect sense.Barry Kenyon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 5:19 pmIn fact, the new policy is exclusively aimed at immigrants, their children and ethnic minorities from neighboring countries (Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia) who have been living here, often stateless, for decades.
Such people need citizenship the most and are more likely to fit in & integrate. (Unlike, for example, some of the middle easterners arriving in the UK).
By all means also apply a few integration criteria to their citizenship.
Incidentally, I thought someone said Barry Kenyon was British ? If so, the spelling causes me to suspect he has cut & pasted this part.
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Gaybutton
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Re: By Barry Kenyon
Granting full Thai citizenship to those long term stateless residents from neighbouring countries must be one of the finest things done by a Thai government for years.
It's doing the right thing for those people.
This probably benefits Thailand too, given the low birth rate.
Finally, it's low risk. From what I see, in much of the world, immigrants from adjacent countries AND with similar cultures tend to assimilate well.
It's doing the right thing for those people.
This probably benefits Thailand too, given the low birth rate.
Finally, it's low risk. From what I see, in much of the world, immigrants from adjacent countries AND with similar cultures tend to assimilate well.
Re: By Barry Kenyon
I'm not sure if it's this thread where the 300 baht tax for arrivals by air has been mentioned. The one they can't figure out how to collect.
I just booked a short haul flight out of DMK. The itemized receipt shows a 730 baht airport tax. So they are already collecting that one.
One small step to vary that tax according to whatever other criteria they choose.
With all the data immigration like to collect, I'd imagine they know how many Thais and how many foreigners are on each flight.
I just booked a short haul flight out of DMK. The itemized receipt shows a 730 baht airport tax. So they are already collecting that one.
One small step to vary that tax according to whatever other criteria they choose.
With all the data immigration like to collect, I'd imagine they know how many Thais and how many foreigners are on each flight.
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Gaybutton
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Re: By Barry Kenyon
From what I am seeing, they keep saying they are going to collect that 300 baht, but I'm still waiting for them to decide how they are going to collect. I won't be surprised if this turns out to be yet another one that won't be thoroughly thought through and end up causing problems.
Meanwhile, for the price of one drink, I don't see that fee stopping people from choosing Thailand as their destination, especially considering how much they're paying for everything else.
I can't help but wonder how much of that money will be used as it is supposed to be used and how much of it just maybe, shall we say - fall into the wrong hands . . .
Re: By Barry Kenyon
In addition to the potential corruption, there is also the matter of unwise expenditure.
For example, replacing perfectly good railway stations with less convenient, large & expensive railway stations, in the wrong location.
Whilst forgetting to improve the rail services that attract customers in the first place.
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Re: By Barry Kenyon
Thailand’s DTV game changer: let sleeping dogs lie for now
By Barry Kenyon
November 3, 2024
Since the introduction last July, the Destination Thailand Visa has been a rip-roaring success. A brainchild of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to boost visitor numbers, extend stays and increase state revenue, no official figures are available for the number granted. Estimates on social media spread from 10,000 to 40,000, the higher guess being the more likely. Although teething problems certainly exist – embassies “doing their own thing” for required documentation being the main complaint – the commentary approval rating on the hugely popular DTV Facebook group is over 90 percent.
Much of the success is due to official, hands-off flexibility. Initially, it was stated that applications should be made in the home country or the work location outside Thailand, then extended to visa runners booking accommodation for just a few days. The quickest fix was, and still is, the Thai embassy in Taipei (officially called the Thailand Trade and Economic Office which avoids irritating Beijing) which still has a walk-in facility and offers a 24-hour turnaround service if your documents are in order. Walk-ins generally have a shorter waiting time than those through the electronic portal.
Inevitably, visa agents in Thailand have now grasped the cash potential of DTV and offer visa run to the nervous, usually to Laos or Cambodia. The companies can arrange road travel and accommodation for several days and provide relevant paperwork, even offering a written bond to those who lack handily the 500,000 baht (US$15,000) guarantee which is part of the application requirements. Full agency service seems to cost between 100,000 and 150,000 baht (US$30,000 up). Unlike the annual extension of stay based on retirement, the DTV application does not require a Thai bank book. Indeed, some applicants may never have visited Thailand yet.
DTV holders receive 180 days on entry and there is no restriction on the repeat number of visits by sea, land or air. It is, after all, a five years multiple entry visa as stressed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Naruchai Ninnad in his famous “deeper dive” interview with Bangkok Post. Most of the current question marks are about the option of a further 180 days extension at local immigration offices which are part of the Ministry of the Interior which, to date, has not said a single word about DTV. With an immigration extension, DTV holders would receive a maximum of 360 days (180+180) before leaving the country. Without the immigration discretion, six months is the maximum stay without interruption.
A number of issues probably concern immigration. There is much misunderstanding by freelance or digital workers about working in Thailand (they must not interact at all with the Thai economy to be safe). Some DTV holders with soft power success such as cooking or boxing classes have signed up only for one month’s tuition, or even less. The zoom advance of DTV may well be deterring applications for other longterm visas such as Privilege-Elite or Long Term Residence. Immigration is very reluctant to comment on these contentious issues and a phone call to the hotline 1178 brought only the response to look at the DTV official website which, of course, sheds no relevant light.
Privately, immigration officers say 180 days extensions are likely to be granted without issue until the DTV is at least one year old. That’s to avoid arguments and delays at immigration queue lines, creating bad publicity for all concerned. In the longer term, extensions could require a digital (not in-person) application with the need to provide online updated information. Or such extensions might be decided only by immigration headquarters and not by provincial offices. Or the DTV might be cancelled altogether for new applicants with “grandfather” rights given to those already possessing the visa.
Or maybe, and just as likely, nothing in the future will happen to reduce the current flexibility. After all, the Thai Revenue Department is keen to tax assessable income, from January 2024, transmitted to Thailand by any Thai or foreigner who clocks up a total of 180 days or more in a calendar year. The lack of social media discussion of this particular DTV issue has been deafening. After all, DTV holders don’t have any dispensations. Not from income tax regulations for residents, not from 90 days and not from TM30. As the Swedish saying puts it: no worries unless the sleeping bear wakes up.
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... now-478512
By Barry Kenyon
November 3, 2024
Since the introduction last July, the Destination Thailand Visa has been a rip-roaring success. A brainchild of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to boost visitor numbers, extend stays and increase state revenue, no official figures are available for the number granted. Estimates on social media spread from 10,000 to 40,000, the higher guess being the more likely. Although teething problems certainly exist – embassies “doing their own thing” for required documentation being the main complaint – the commentary approval rating on the hugely popular DTV Facebook group is over 90 percent.
Much of the success is due to official, hands-off flexibility. Initially, it was stated that applications should be made in the home country or the work location outside Thailand, then extended to visa runners booking accommodation for just a few days. The quickest fix was, and still is, the Thai embassy in Taipei (officially called the Thailand Trade and Economic Office which avoids irritating Beijing) which still has a walk-in facility and offers a 24-hour turnaround service if your documents are in order. Walk-ins generally have a shorter waiting time than those through the electronic portal.
Inevitably, visa agents in Thailand have now grasped the cash potential of DTV and offer visa run to the nervous, usually to Laos or Cambodia. The companies can arrange road travel and accommodation for several days and provide relevant paperwork, even offering a written bond to those who lack handily the 500,000 baht (US$15,000) guarantee which is part of the application requirements. Full agency service seems to cost between 100,000 and 150,000 baht (US$30,000 up). Unlike the annual extension of stay based on retirement, the DTV application does not require a Thai bank book. Indeed, some applicants may never have visited Thailand yet.
DTV holders receive 180 days on entry and there is no restriction on the repeat number of visits by sea, land or air. It is, after all, a five years multiple entry visa as stressed by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman Naruchai Ninnad in his famous “deeper dive” interview with Bangkok Post. Most of the current question marks are about the option of a further 180 days extension at local immigration offices which are part of the Ministry of the Interior which, to date, has not said a single word about DTV. With an immigration extension, DTV holders would receive a maximum of 360 days (180+180) before leaving the country. Without the immigration discretion, six months is the maximum stay without interruption.
A number of issues probably concern immigration. There is much misunderstanding by freelance or digital workers about working in Thailand (they must not interact at all with the Thai economy to be safe). Some DTV holders with soft power success such as cooking or boxing classes have signed up only for one month’s tuition, or even less. The zoom advance of DTV may well be deterring applications for other longterm visas such as Privilege-Elite or Long Term Residence. Immigration is very reluctant to comment on these contentious issues and a phone call to the hotline 1178 brought only the response to look at the DTV official website which, of course, sheds no relevant light.
Privately, immigration officers say 180 days extensions are likely to be granted without issue until the DTV is at least one year old. That’s to avoid arguments and delays at immigration queue lines, creating bad publicity for all concerned. In the longer term, extensions could require a digital (not in-person) application with the need to provide online updated information. Or such extensions might be decided only by immigration headquarters and not by provincial offices. Or the DTV might be cancelled altogether for new applicants with “grandfather” rights given to those already possessing the visa.
Or maybe, and just as likely, nothing in the future will happen to reduce the current flexibility. After all, the Thai Revenue Department is keen to tax assessable income, from January 2024, transmitted to Thailand by any Thai or foreigner who clocks up a total of 180 days or more in a calendar year. The lack of social media discussion of this particular DTV issue has been deafening. After all, DTV holders don’t have any dispensations. Not from income tax regulations for residents, not from 90 days and not from TM30. As the Swedish saying puts it: no worries unless the sleeping bear wakes up.
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... now-478512
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Re: By Barry Kenyon
Trump’s presidential win is good news for “Thighland’s” economy
By Barry Kenyon
November 8, 2024
Donald Trump may not be an expert on Thai affairs, even mispronouncing the country as Thighland four years ago. But most economists believe his second-term win is more of a plus for Thailand than a Harris victory would have been. The secret lies in Trump’s monumental dislike of China and his threat to increase dramatically tariffs – up to 60 percent and beyond – to deter Chinese exports to the United States.
As commerce minister Pichai Naripthaphan has noted, there’s likely to be a rush of Chinese investment to build factories in Thailand to create a manufacturing hub for exports to the United States. That is already a trend in the Eastern Economic Corridor for automobile production, electronics and AI data centers. The Thai premier, Paetongtarn Shinawatra, was amongst the first tranche of world leaders to congratulate the Trump-Vance ticket.
The Board of Investment has already announced a 42 percent jump in the value of investment proposals for 2024 compared with the previous year. With rising US Treasury yields rising already, the baht is likely to decline by one or two cents. Although that will be unpopular with international tourists to Thailand, a weaker baht makes Thai exports to the US and the world cheaper.
There are, of course, threats to this positive scenario under Trump. For example, if Thailand moves closer to China in foreign policy Trump may well raise US tariffs on imports from here. He will certainly dislike Thailand’s flirtation with BRICS, an international economic framework led by Russia and China, which the new president will see as an attack on the US dollar. Moreover, Thailand is in dispute with China over the dumping of cheap consumer goods here which is threatening domestic production.
However, Thailand has shown itself adroit over many decades in maintaining a measure of international independence on the world stage. Dealing with the unpredictable Trump and his America First agenda will be a major task of the current Pheu Thai administration. Thailand has the second biggest economy in ASEAN but is experiencing sluggish growth. Receiving as many international tourists as possible and encouraging exports are the two major preoccupations as 2024 splutters to a close.
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... omy-479023
By Barry Kenyon
November 8, 2024
Donald Trump may not be an expert on Thai affairs, even mispronouncing the country as Thighland four years ago. But most economists believe his second-term win is more of a plus for Thailand than a Harris victory would have been. The secret lies in Trump’s monumental dislike of China and his threat to increase dramatically tariffs – up to 60 percent and beyond – to deter Chinese exports to the United States.
As commerce minister Pichai Naripthaphan has noted, there’s likely to be a rush of Chinese investment to build factories in Thailand to create a manufacturing hub for exports to the United States. That is already a trend in the Eastern Economic Corridor for automobile production, electronics and AI data centers. The Thai premier, Paetongtarn Shinawatra, was amongst the first tranche of world leaders to congratulate the Trump-Vance ticket.
The Board of Investment has already announced a 42 percent jump in the value of investment proposals for 2024 compared with the previous year. With rising US Treasury yields rising already, the baht is likely to decline by one or two cents. Although that will be unpopular with international tourists to Thailand, a weaker baht makes Thai exports to the US and the world cheaper.
There are, of course, threats to this positive scenario under Trump. For example, if Thailand moves closer to China in foreign policy Trump may well raise US tariffs on imports from here. He will certainly dislike Thailand’s flirtation with BRICS, an international economic framework led by Russia and China, which the new president will see as an attack on the US dollar. Moreover, Thailand is in dispute with China over the dumping of cheap consumer goods here which is threatening domestic production.
However, Thailand has shown itself adroit over many decades in maintaining a measure of international independence on the world stage. Dealing with the unpredictable Trump and his America First agenda will be a major task of the current Pheu Thai administration. Thailand has the second biggest economy in ASEAN but is experiencing sluggish growth. Receiving as many international tourists as possible and encouraging exports are the two major preoccupations as 2024 splutters to a close.
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... omy-479023
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Re: By Barry Kenyon
Pattaya Gentlemen’s Clubs see boost from Destination Thailand Visa
By Barry Kenyon
November 8, 2024
Aside from the controversies, Thailand’s new Destination Thailand Visa is seeing a boom in the number of younger foreign men basing themselves in seaside resorts. Known as digital nomads, they must have contracts with overseas employers or work independently without Thai customers. According to Steven Acreman, owner of gentsclubs.com, their presence is already having a positive impact on business in the nine consortia clubs in the city.
“Most of the longterm western expats in Pattaya are over 60 on retirement visas, but the popular DTV is breaking new ground with remote workers or those (usually male) wanting to learn new skills such as martial arts,” said Steven. “As regards leisure they are looking for something more sophisticated than the traditional gogo clubs and they are likely to be here for a substantial time as the DTV visa offers 180 days per visit over five years with the possibility of extensions at immigration.”
The term “gentleman club” is admittedly awkward. It dates back to 18th century England and gave aristocrats a chance to get away from the wife for the afternoon and relax in private surroundings drinking port and gambling at whist. The term these days has come to mean a club offering more services than your typical gogo bar. The website says that the seasoned traveller or the first-time visitor can find unforgettable entertainment and “all things hedonistic and indulgent”.
In other words, the customers are made to feel special rather than just anonymous drinkers idly watching pole dancers on the stage. Gentlemen’s clubs tend to have more comfortable seating, less noise and cheaper prices than the traditional nightclub. The ladies are there to entertain – whether that means chatting, playing snooker or offering something more intimate. Currently, there are over 50 locations in the Pattaya area laying claim in their marketing to the status of a gentleman’s club.
There are nine clubs within the gentsclub.com orbit, mostly located away from the traditional hotspots such as Walking Street and the Treetown district. All open around 1 pm and each has its own special privileges such as food, discounts and shows. Members sign up for a regular newsletter with all the details. “The marketing is broadly based and we want our members to feel a community sense which is why we offer weekly pub crawls and even cycling keep-fit sessions,” said Steven.
Pattaya Mail talked to Chris Weeks, a middle-aged remote worker from UK, what he thought of the concept. “Each club has its own style and size, but what they have in common is their difference from traditional venues. Mind you, I have never met a gentleman in any one of them.” His favorite clubs are the three all named Maggie May with the “darkside” one having opened just last week. “Being a digital nomad means I can actually earn money typing on my laptop whilst being inspired by attractive hostesses,” Chris concluded. “Can’t do that in Stoke-on-Trent.”
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... isa-479190
By Barry Kenyon
November 8, 2024
Aside from the controversies, Thailand’s new Destination Thailand Visa is seeing a boom in the number of younger foreign men basing themselves in seaside resorts. Known as digital nomads, they must have contracts with overseas employers or work independently without Thai customers. According to Steven Acreman, owner of gentsclubs.com, their presence is already having a positive impact on business in the nine consortia clubs in the city.
“Most of the longterm western expats in Pattaya are over 60 on retirement visas, but the popular DTV is breaking new ground with remote workers or those (usually male) wanting to learn new skills such as martial arts,” said Steven. “As regards leisure they are looking for something more sophisticated than the traditional gogo clubs and they are likely to be here for a substantial time as the DTV visa offers 180 days per visit over five years with the possibility of extensions at immigration.”
The term “gentleman club” is admittedly awkward. It dates back to 18th century England and gave aristocrats a chance to get away from the wife for the afternoon and relax in private surroundings drinking port and gambling at whist. The term these days has come to mean a club offering more services than your typical gogo bar. The website says that the seasoned traveller or the first-time visitor can find unforgettable entertainment and “all things hedonistic and indulgent”.
In other words, the customers are made to feel special rather than just anonymous drinkers idly watching pole dancers on the stage. Gentlemen’s clubs tend to have more comfortable seating, less noise and cheaper prices than the traditional nightclub. The ladies are there to entertain – whether that means chatting, playing snooker or offering something more intimate. Currently, there are over 50 locations in the Pattaya area laying claim in their marketing to the status of a gentleman’s club.
There are nine clubs within the gentsclub.com orbit, mostly located away from the traditional hotspots such as Walking Street and the Treetown district. All open around 1 pm and each has its own special privileges such as food, discounts and shows. Members sign up for a regular newsletter with all the details. “The marketing is broadly based and we want our members to feel a community sense which is why we offer weekly pub crawls and even cycling keep-fit sessions,” said Steven.
Pattaya Mail talked to Chris Weeks, a middle-aged remote worker from UK, what he thought of the concept. “Each club has its own style and size, but what they have in common is their difference from traditional venues. Mind you, I have never met a gentleman in any one of them.” His favorite clubs are the three all named Maggie May with the “darkside” one having opened just last week. “Being a digital nomad means I can actually earn money typing on my laptop whilst being inspired by attractive hostesses,” Chris concluded. “Can’t do that in Stoke-on-Trent.”
https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... isa-479190