Pita says 'enough support' to become Prime Minister

[bkkguy]

In a way, Thailand is somewhat similar to the USA's electoral college system in that just because you get the most popular votes, even if it's a landslide, that doesn't guarantee in the end you will be the winner. That is how Trump became president over Hillary Clinton. She got the most popular votes, but Trump got the right number of electoral votes. In Thailand, it's who gets the most senate votes.

actually, it is who gets the most votes in a joint sitting of the house and the senate

and it is not that similar to the US electoral college system - in the US, and outside of the US, virtually nobody understands how this works and why it was originally instigated, whereas inside Thailand. and outside Thailand, virtually everybody understands how this works and why it was originally instigated!

[Jun]

actually, it is who gets the most votes in a joint sitting of the house and the senate

and it is not that similar to the US electoral college system - in the US, and outside of the US, virtually nobody understands how this works and why it was originally instigated, whereas inside Thailand. and outside Thailand, virtually everybody understands how this works and why it was originally instigated!

House 500 seats (elected)
Senate 250 seats (appointed by military)

So following your description, to elect a PM who is not backed by the military, he needs 75% of the elected seats to get an overall majority.

I presume this new constitution is a way for Thailand to pretend to be democratic, whilst retaining military influence. Which is what I vaguely understood from reading about it in the BKK Post over the years.
I guess this constitution limits the scope for reforms. Hence certain issues are off the table.

Remember, in Europe, the countries with democracy only got there after decades or centuries of struggle. It should not be taken for granted.

[Gaybutton]

in the US, and outside of the US, virtually nobody understands how this works and why it was originally instigated

Well, I understand it and I know why it was originally instigated. When the system was started, the original 13 colonies were great distances from each other, given the transportation of the day. Each colony sent their designated electors, the numbers of which depended on the number of senators and congressman each state had, to meet centrally to cast their votes for President. That made good sense at the time. The assumption was the electors would vote in accordance with the popular vote outcome for their district, but there was nothing obligating them to vote that way. Times and technology have changed. Most of the time the electoral college worked, but once in a while a minority president was elected. That's how Trump became president even though Hillary Clinton got more popular votes.

With the technology available today, I see no valid or logical reason for continuing the electoral college system. In my opinion it ought to be abolished as archaic and obsolete, but I don't foresee that happening any time soon.

I thought one of the main attributes of a democratic system is whoever gets the most votes is the winner, but it doesn't always end up working that way.

[Jun]

The assumption was the electors would vote in accordance with the popular vote outcome for their district, but there was nothing obligating them to vote that way. Most of the time it worked, but once in a while a minority president was elected. That's how Trump became president even though Hillary Clinton got more popular votes.

The US system is very different and might belong in a different topic.

Did anyone actually vote against voters intentions in the Trump case ? My understanding is he won more seats by small margins, which is totally playing by the rules. I don't see the need for that system either, but I thought everyone voted as they should at the college.

We have seen something similar in the UK, despite a different system. In the 2005 election, if we look at England only, the results were:
Labour 35.5 % of vote ==> 278 seats
Conservatives 35.7% ==>206 seats
That was primarily because the Conservatives win some seats with enormous majorities, whilst Labour win many more seats with small, but usually solid majorities. We then compound the problem by allocating more MPs per capita for Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland.
This also belongs in a different thread.

Neither the UK or US gives the military a third of the votes.
We also have free speech on constitutional matters, but as you know, this is not the place for that topic !

Some argue for PR, but that often gives the small fringe parties the balance of power & these may be extremist parties.

[bkkguy]

Remember, in Europe, the countries with democracy only got there after decades or centuries of struggle.

Thailand has had almost a century of constitutional monarchy to achieve a democratically elected parliament - do you think are they getting close?

'
It should not be taken for granted.

Winston Churchill is quoted as saying that: “democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.”

It seems we either take it for granted or take it with a gerrymander in most "democratic" countries today - including, even after many centuries, the "mother of democracy", the UK

[Gaybutton]

The first senatorial vote will take place Thursday, July 13. If Pita receives enough votes, that's it. He's in, although I'm not sure what date he would actually take office. If he does not get enough votes, the next ballot will take place Wednesday, July 19. If he doesn't make it on that date either, I don't know at this point what happens next.
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MFP predicts PM nod for Pita

by Aekarach Sattaburuth

July 8, 2023

The Move Forward Party (MFP) has expressed confidence its leader Pita Limjaroenrat will receive enough support from senators to become the new prime minister in the crucial vote next Thursday.

MFP secretary-general Chaithawat Tulathon on Friday brushed aside remarks by some senators that they would not vote for Mr Pita as they are concerned about his party's policies, especially the planned amendment of the lese majeste law.

Some senators who had previously pledged to vote for him have apparently had a change of heart due to the party's stance on changing Section 112 of the Criminal Code, or the lese majeste law. The MFP has vowed to press for an amendment.

In response, Mr Chaithawat on Friday said: "These are only the opinions of some senators, but most of the senators have not yet expressed their view on the matter."

He also expressed confidence that the talks between the MFP and senators will deliver a positive outcome, as most senators would want to give the country an opportunity to move forward.

The 250 appointed senators are allowed by the constitution to participate in the vote, along with the 500 elected members of the House of Representatives.

Under the constitution, a PM candidate would need the support of at least half of the 750 members of both the lower and upper chambers of parliament, or 376 votes in total.

The eight coalition parties are said to have secured 312 votes in support of Mr Pita and now need 64 more votes from senators or other MPs to reach that threshold.

Asked if the MFP would back down from its bid to amend Section 112, Mr Chaithawat said that the party could allay the senators' concerns.

He also said he would ask House Speaker Wan Muhamad Noor Matha if it would be possible for a PM candidate to outline his vision before the vote in parliament and whether members of parliament should also be allowed to quiz the candidate before making their decision.

Asked to comment on what would happen if Mr Pita fails to win in the first round of voting on July 13, Mr Chaithawat said that in that case, the MFP would nominate him again for another vote on July 19.

House Speaker Wan previously said that if Mr Pita fails to secure the votes required to become Thailand's next prime minister in the House session set for next Thursday, then a second round of voting is likely to be held on July 19.

However, Mr Chaithawat said he believed Mr Pita would win in the first round and emerge as the new prime minister.

"We may celebrate [Mr Pita's election as a new PM] on the evening of July 13," Mr Chaithawat said.

"But if the voting for a new premier drags on for several rounds, then the formation of a new government would also be delayed.

"This may also affect deliberations on the 2024 fiscal budget as well as the economy. Investors will have to suspend investment as they have to assess the situation.

"The faster everything is completed, the better, so Thai politics will stabilise," Mr Chaithawat said.

Asked if the MFP would support a PM candidate from Pheu Thai if Mr Pita fails, Mr Chaithawat insisted that Mr Pita is the only PM candidate nominated by the eight coalition parties.

The MFP's deputy leader, Sirikanya Tansakun, on Friday claimed that the party had won over enough senators to back Mr Pita's bid to become prime minister.

"But we must also have a contingency plan in case some senators may have a change of heart. No one knows what will happen on the day of voting," she said.

Deputy Pheu Thai leader Phumtham Wechayachai said on Firday that the eight coalition parties would stick together and support Mr Pita to become the next prime minister.

Meanwhile, Senator Prapasri Suchantabutr insisted on Friday that she would vote for Mr Pita to be the next prime minister because his party had received the most votes in the May 14 election.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/po ... d-for-pita

[Gaybutton]

The problem as to why someone other than Pita, despite his overwhelming election landslide victory, might become Thailand's next Prime Minister is because the senators who make the final decisions are all appointed, not elected. They were appointed by the military. They are under no legal obligation as to who to vote for. They can vote for whoever they want. In that regard, the election seems almost superfluous.
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MFP faces uncertain fate

By Aekarach Sattaburuth and Mongkol Bangprapa

July 9, 2023

The parliamentary vote to select the new prime minister is less than a week away and it is anybody's guess who will emerge as the country's next leader.

Under the charter, a candidate must receive at least 376 votes from among 500 MPs and 250 senators to become prime minister.

As things currently stand, the eight-party coalition led by the Move Forward Party (MFP) controls 312 House seats, so it needs the support of at least 64 votes from either senators or MPs outside the bloc to secure MFP leader Pita Limjaroenrat's bid to become prime minister.

When the joint sitting of MPs and senators convenes this Thursday for the crucial vote, political observers don't think the new prime minister will emerge in one round of voting. The coalition formation is likely to shift if Mr Pita cannot muster enough support to meet the 376-vote threshold after the second round.

In that event, observers present two possible scenarios: Pheu Thai, the second largest party in the eight-party bloc, may nominate Srettha Thavisin and a joint sitting of parliament may vote for Mr Srettha to be the next prime minister.

Or, Pheu Thai will take the lead in the coalition and bring in new partners or form a new one without the MFP.

In the latter scenario, either Mr Srettha or Gen Prawit Wongsuwon, leader of the Palang Pracharath Party (PPRP), may be voted in as prime minister, while the MFP may be forced into opposition.

Alliance to move forward

The selection of the House speaker and two deputies is a strong sign the formation of the eight-party coalition is on track, said MFP deputy party leader and list-MP Natthawut Buaprathum.

He said the bloc is also counting on MPs from outside the bloc and senators who indicate they will respect the majority's wishes and so vote for Mr Pita to be prime minister.

Mr Natthawut said the number of senators expected to vote for Mr Pita is believed to exceed the number the MFP-led alliance needs and he expects the prime minister will be known in just one round of voting.

He said the party will prep Mr Pita for questions to be raised when he presents his vision speech before the joint sitting and if the party can address concerns, some may have a change of heart.

Many senators are against the MFP's policies to amend the lese majeste law and may vote against Mr Pita or cast a vote of abstention.

"We believe several senators have decided to vote for him but keep the decision to themselves. The number of those in favour of Mr Pita is growing," he said.

According to the MFP deputy party leader, at this point there is no situation in which the MFP would have to join the opposition and it will take a while before any legal cases against Mr Pita are finalised.

The MFP leader faces complaints questioning his eligibility over a shareholding in iTV Plc. The constitution bars individuals with media shareholdings from running for office.

Mr Natthawut also ruled out the possibility of some party MPs switching sides and dismissed speculation the party could be at a disadvantage because the House speaker is now in the hands of the Prachachat Party, known to be close to Pheu Thai.

He said the party's fight for the House speaker post has nothing to do with the prime minister vote and the issue is settled now that Wan Muhamad Noor Matha, of the Prachachat Party, has assumed the role.

Regardless of who the House speaker is, the coalition is obliged to follow the memorandum of understanding on coalition formation which it signed, he said.

He said it is time for the country to have a government which can handle pressing matters including investors' confidence and the budget bill for the 2024 fiscal year.

Asked if the MFP is ready to vote for a prime minister candidate from Pheu Thai, he said he believed every party has selected the best it can offer but it is too soon to consider them.

"We must support the MFP's candidate first. But if we really have to pick someone else, we will consider candidates from within the alliance," he said.

Two rounds 'should be enough'

There is no limit as to how many times a prime minister vote can be held.

Mr Wan indicated that if a candidate fails to win a first round of voting, further rounds will be held until a candidate reaches the 376-vote threshold. A second round of voting is tentatively scheduled on July 19.

However, there are fears among the Pheu Thai Party that the deadlock can trigger the opposing bloc to nominate a challenger to Mr Pita in a bid to form a minority government.

According to a source in Pheu Thai, although the constitution does not put a limit on how many times parliament will meet to select the prime minister, there is no point in still nominating Mr Pita after two rounds.

There would be no problem if the Senate was not involved in the selection process, and without its support the eight-party alliance still needs MPs from outside the bloc, with Bhumjaithai currently on its radar, said the source.

But Bhumjaithai, which has 71 House seats, is against amending the lese majeste law and the party MPs abstained when the House voted to select the first deputy speaker candidate from the MFP.

The Chartthaipattana and Democrat parties may also be brought on board, but the alliance will have to wait and see how the Democrat leadership race turns out, according to the source.

"But above all, it should be agreed how many rounds of voting should be enough. If it drags on, the other bloc may nominate a challenger. And if they do, they may succeed," said the source.

It is unlikely that Bhumjaithai will give Mr Pita votes without getting anything in return. In fact, party is expected to drive hard bargain, said the source.

If Mr Pita's bid fails and Pheu Thai steps in to lead the coalition, the party will nominate Mr Srettha in parliament, the source said, ruling out the possibility of "an outsider" prime minister.

In case parliament fails to select a new premier from the candidate lists supplied by the parties, Section 272 allows half of the 750 MPs and senators to initiate a motion to suspend the rule requiring that PM candidates come from party lists.

Such a motion requires the support of two-thirds of all the lawmakers, or 500, to suspend the rule. A nominated outsider would also need at least 376 votes to become prime minister.

The source admitted that although the House speaker selection was quick and smooth, the prime minister vote could face hiccups. "There are concerns about renegade MPs," the source said.

PM will emerge 'from Pheu Thai'

Witthaya Kaewparadai, deputy leader of the United Thai Nation Part (UTN), said the MFP has put itself in a difficult position and if it cannot get itself out, Pheu Thai will take the lead in coalition formation.

He was referring to the MFP's stance that it would not do business with those who supported Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha in the 2019 general election.

The MFP and its partners will have to work things out with parties they brand "dictatorship" parties, he said, adding they know what the rules are, but still choose to put themselves on the spot.

However, Pheu Thai is considered to be in a better position than the MFP to clinch the PM post because it is opposed to revising the lese majeste law, said the UTN deputy leader.

"Whether or not there will be more parties added to the coalition depends on whether they reverse their stance [on not working with pro-military parties]," he said.

Asked about the UTN's stance, he said the party made its stance clear when it put up MP for Phitsanulok, Padipat Suntiphada, for the first deputy House speaker post, challenging the MFP.

Sen Somchai Sawaengkarn said the MFP's election victory caught the Pheu Thai Party off guard and posed a threat to the party which was banking on the two-ballot system to deliver it a landslide win.

In his view, Pheu Thai will negotiate to be part of the next coalition government and if an alternative is possible, the party may drop the MFP and join hands with Bhumjaithai or the PPRP.

"Pheu Thai's goal is to be in the government and it's willing to drop the prime minister post. It may even give the post to the PPRP but it's not easy due to pressure from MFP supporters," he said.

According to the senator, Pheu Thai will not nominate Paetongtarn "Ung Ing" Shinawatra, daughter of deposed prime minister Thaksin, this time to hold off critics.

Mr Somchai rejected speculation about the current government bloc forming a minority government because it would be short-lived and it would backfire when the next elections are held.

"A minority government is unnecessary and it's not the way things should be. The parties that opt for this won't survive the next polls," Mr Somchai added.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/sp ... rtain-fate

[Gaybutton]

As of noon today, July 13, Pita has officially been nominated to become Thailand's next Prime Minister. However, that is only part 1 of what he needs in order to become Prime Minister. Part 2 happens later today. Pita must receive at least 376 votes from a joint session of Thailand's House of Representatives and Senate. As of this moment that vote has not yet taken place. 312 votes seem to be assured. If he gets the 64 votes necessary to bring his total to 376, then it's over and he's in.

If not, then a second round of voting will take place Wednesday, July 19.

[Gaybutton]

The article says the joint session vote should take place at 5:00pm, Thailand time. That is one hour from the time of this post. I will, of course, let you know the outcome as soon as I know it.

I will close this topic now and post the results and continuing information on a new topic, "Prime Minister Election".

See: viewtopic.php?t=11347
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Pita is sole PM candidate in parliament

by Aekarach Sattaburuth

July 13, 2023

A joint sitting of the House of Representatives and the Senate convened on Thursday morning for a prime ministerial debate and vote, as Move Forward Party (MFP) leader Pita Limjaroenrat was the sole candidate.

In the session Pheu Thai Party leader Cholnan Srikaew nominated Mr Pita as prime minister, with support from 302 House representatives.

Under the constitution, a candidate must receive at least 376 votes from among 500 House representatives and 250 senators to become prime minister. Eight coalition allies currently have 312 votes in the House.

Before the session, Mr Pita declined to answer reporters' questions about his confidence in being voted as prime minister. The MFP leader said he hoped the joint sitting would have nothing to do with his iTV shareholding case and his party's policy to amend Section 112, or the lese majeste law.

Meanwhile, Sutin Klangsaeng, a veteran politician from Pheu Thai, said he heard of a plan to postpone the prime ministerial vote and another plan to conclude the vote on Thursday. He said a postponement would have adverse effects on government formation.

If Mr Pita is not elected as prime minister, the next round of voting scheduled for July 19 might see another prime ministerial candidate, according to Mr Sutin.

Some political parties outside the eight coalition allies stood firm in their decision to abstain from voting for Mr Pita because his party planned to amend the lese majeste law. The parties included the Democrat and Chartthaipattana parties.

Senator Kittirat Ratanawaraha said most senators would abstain from voting, and less than 10 senators would vote for Mr Pita on Thursday.

House representatives and senators were debating on Mr Pita's prime ministerial nomination, and the joint sitting was expected to cast votes at 5pm on Thursday.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/po ... parliament