Major step toward same sex marriage in Thailand

[Gaybutton]

Thank you Dragonmaster. You have clarified most of my questions. While same-sex marriage looks like it will become legal, I, for one, would stay well away from it. The retirement visa works just fine for me and I see no reason to change it. If I find myself that close to somebody, a will would solve any issues that interest me.

If any of you are going to marry your Thai love, please keep us informed. I hope it works out well.

[bkkguy]

While same-sex marriage looks like it will become legal, I, for one, would stay well away from it. The retirement visa works just fine for me and I see no reason to change it. If I find myself that close to somebody, a will would solve any issues that interest me.

there are four concepts here:

- marriage law and the many benefits that accrue to couples and spouses

- Immigration requirements for annual extension of permission to stay based on marriage or retirement

- taxation law that defines who is a tax resident and their tax liability

- other laws that cover other aspects of life here such as relating to wills

and you can mix and match elements of these concepts to suit your requirements, for example

- I can get a retirement extension from Immigration and while I cannot work in Thailand I can still be employed or earn income overseas, so while I am still retired as far as Immigration is concerned I may still have a tax liability as far as the Revenue Dept is concerned

- I can be legally married under Thai law (including the new same sex changes to be introduced) and get all the benefits marriage implies but still be retired as far as Immigration is concerned for annual extensions without having to meet the more onerous requirements of a marriage extension

- I can be legally married under Thai law (including the new same sex changes to be introduced) and get all the benefits marriage implies and also be married as far as Immigration is concerned for annual extensions because I find the financial requirements easier to meet than the retirement requirements

- I can have a relationship with a Thai person but a will offers sufficient cover for my estate settlement and I already easily meet the retirement extension requirements so I have no need for any change

while the last example obviously suits GB, for many people the additional benefits of marriage are significant and they should not be confused with the Immigration requirements for a marriage extension of permission to stay

[ceejay]

Something that, reading through this thread, I don't think has been mentioned.

Many UK occupational pensions have survivor benefits after death of the main beneficiary - typically 50% of your annual pension to your spouse for the whole of the rest of their life after your own death. That, even at 50%, will often be a good middle class income for a Thai.

These benefits are only payable to legal spouses.

Guaranteeing financial security for life to a long term partner who has given you much seems to me to be a very good reason for marriage.

[Gaybutton]

Guaranteeing financial security for life to a long term partner who has given you much seems to me to be a very good reason for marriage.

I don't know how to phrase my next question without coming off as a totally selfish son-of-a-bitch, but I really don't mean it that way. I'm just curious:

Marriage might be great for the Thai assuming he outlives me, but regarding marriage to a Thai - what's in it for me? The only thing I can think of, assuming I want to jump through all the hoops, is now I can keep 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account rather than 800,000. Other than that, how would such a marriage benefit me - on a practical basis?

[Dodger]

- I can be legally married under Thai law (including the new same sex changes to be introduced) and get all the benefits marriage implies but still be retired as far as Immigration is concerned for annual extensions without having to meet the more onerous requirements of a marriage extension.

That concept works for me.

Here's what doesn't work for me:

We all know how inefficient and error-prone Thailand's administrative systems are, and it's not hard to imagine having a hospital be unable to locate the form that tells them that you as their patient don't want to be kept alive on a life-support machine. "Opps, sorry, no form can be found in our system". What happens next? You'd be laying there in a coma-state for however long it takes to drain the limits of your health insurance policy and/or bank account (or relatives bank account(s) before they decide to allow you passage to your next life with your partner left standing there helpless. Where, if you were legally married, your spouse would be in the drivers seat - not the hospital. In this context changing his title from "Partner" to "Spouse" is a really big deal.

Having a Will is great too. I've had one for years but my partner would still have to rely on possible delays and/or snags in the probate process after my death (welcome to Thailand) - where I believe being legally married may help make this a bit smoother of a process for him.

I would certainly not recommend that anyone get married for these benefits in-and-by-themselves. All things considered, I truly believe it's best for gay farang in Thailand to remain single and just enjoy life. Too many obstacles out there especially if you're coupled with a working boy.

If-in-fact you've been in a successful and harmonious LTR for a long time (years not months) where those all-too-important commitments have been tested (and they passed)...and you and your partner have bonded to the point that neither of you can imagine life without the other being in it, then the extra benefits provided in the marriage law may be worth considering.

Jai and I just celebrated out "10 Year Anniversary" yesterday...plan to marry without any hesitation as long as the final draft of the law mirrors the existing law as was approved by parliament.

If you find yourself faced with the question "what's in it for me?" then the time to get married wouldn't be right for you.

[Gaybutton]

If you find yourself faced with the question "what's in it for me?" then the time to get married isn't right for you.

Wouldn't that depend on what the answer to that question is? On an emotional level, that's one thing, but my question is on a practical level. If there is a good practical reason for a farang to marry his same-sex partner, what would it be? If no such good reason exists, then again on a practical level, why do it?

Ok, then on a purely practical level, what is in it for you?

[Dodger]

If you find yourself faced with the question "what's in it for me?" then the time to get married isn't right for you.

Wouldn't that depend on what the answer to that question is?

Ok, then on a purely practical level, what is in it for you?

The peace of mind knowing that I've done everything in my power to make things as easy as possible for HIM when that time comes.

It's about HIM - not ME.

[Gaybutton]

It's about HIM - not ME.

Believe me I understand that, but what I am trying to find out is if there is an actual practical "what's in it for me?". You've stated an emotional reason, but does a practical reason even exist?

If anyone has one (or more) I'd like to know what it might be.

[2lz2p]

We all know how inefficient and error-prone Thailand's administrative systems are, and it's not hard to imagine having a hospital be unable to locate the form that tells them that you as their patient don't want to be kept alive on a life-support machine .. . Where, if you were legally married, your spouse would be in the drivers seat - not the hospital. In this context changing his title from "Partner" to "Spouse" is a really big deal.

For me, the emotional reasons would be enough but I consider the hospital decision issue to also be a practical one. Yes, you can have a Living Will and name your partner as the one to make decisions, but as Dodger points out, you have to have the Living Will on file at the hospital. But, what if you are not near your usual hospital and you wind up in a hospital in Thailand where you do not have one on file. If married to your partner, then they would legally have the say about your care and "pulling the plug."

I agree with Dodger re the LTR - in my case, my partner and I were together 30+ years. Had he lived, we would have been one of the first ones in line to officially marry once it became legal to do so. My reason would definitely be emotional - to affirm my love for him.

[Gaybutton]

We all know how inefficient and error-prone Thailand's administrative systems are, and it's not hard to imagine having a hospital be unable to locate the form that tells them that you as their patient don't want to be kept alive on a life-support machine .. . Where, if you were legally married, your spouse would be in the drivers seat - not the hospital. In this context changing his title from "Partner" to "Spouse" is a really big deal.

For me, the emotional reasons would be enough but I consider the hospital decision issue to also be a practical one. Yes, you can have a Living Will and name your partner as the one to make decisions, but as Dodger points out, you have to have the Living Will on file at the hospital. But, what if you are not near your usual hospital and you wind up in a hospital in Thailand where you do not have one on file. If married to your partner, then they would legally have the say about your care and "pulling the plug."

I agree with Dodger re the LTR - in my case, my partner and I were together 30+ years. Had he lived, we would have been one of the first ones in line to officially marry once it became legal to do so. My reason would definitely be emotional - to affirm my love for him.