Major step toward same sex marriage in Thailand

[Jun]

OK, so same sex marriage is an excuse for the local brown shirt mafia to inspect your house ? I like marriage even less than I did this morning.

I'm not sure what happens next if the police are not convinced the marriage is genuine, but if heterosexual couples don't have to prove it, why do gay couples?

Well, in your city of residence, it wouldn't surprise me if the police demand a bribe in order to reach the correct conclusion.

However, I presume you're asking what officially should happen. I look forward to hearing the answer.

[Dodger]

......I'm not resistant to it, but there are aspects of it I don't like. For me, the main dislike is if it is a gay marriage, sooner or later the police will show up to make sure you are living together, both sets of clothes are there, and other things that will satisfy them that you are truly married and it's a genuine marriage rather than a marriage in name only for whatever reasons.

I could be wrong but I seriously doubt these house inspections you're referring to would ever come into play.

Where did you read about this?

[Gaybutton]

Where did you read about this?

I've read about it several times, most recently in Barry Kenyon's article - https://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic ... 45#p113045

Longstay gay foreigners will be able to apply for the one year spouse visa which currently requires 400,000 baht in the bank or the equivalent in foreign income, plus other documentation and an immigration police visit to confirm residence and relationship.

That part about the immigration police visit is the part that irks me. As I said, I've read essentially the same several times from several sources. And again, to the best of my knowledge no such immigration police visits take place for heterosexual marriages, so at least to me, this is highly discriminatory.

I have not seen, however, anything about what happens if the police don't like what they see from one of these visits. To answer Jun's question about what officially happens, no answer yet for that, but I doubt the police would be able to unilaterally annul a marriage. Seems to me it would be a very expensive issue that would require a Thai lawyer and the whole thing ending up in court.

It would be interesting to see if the visa services manage to find a way around that, or any other, same-sex marriage legal problems.

If there is a problem, I wonder if this would solve it:

[Dodger]

Thanks, and yes I do remember this now.

This applies to those who apply for annual extensions based on "Marriage"...and based on some excellent advice I received back when Barry wrote this article I will ALWAYS extend my visa based on "Retirement" where these ridiculous house inspections won't be required.

[Gaybutton]

This applies to those who apply for annual extensions based on "Marriage"

I haven't seen anything saying that. How do you know?

[DragonMaster]

This applies to those who apply for annual extensions based on "Marriage"

I haven't seen anything saying that. How do you know?

Dodger is correct. Rather than posting controversial speculation about what you think might happen with the police, immigration or otherwise, a bit of research would have let you know that this has been done for many years for Thai’s married to foreigners. It is nothing new and is not done as an incentive to collect bribes. As Dodger pointed out, it is done for those who are here on marriage visa’s wishing to extend.

[Gaybutton]

a bit of research would have let you know that this has been done for many years for Thai’s married to foreigners.

Ok, now I know that. Did your research tell you what happens if the police find something wrong? Is it a one-time check or do such checks occur periodically?

And if, as you say, this has been done for many years, my next question is WHY? To prevent in-name-only marriages making it possible for expats to keep 400,000 in a Thai bank account rather the 800,000? What does whether the couple is occupying the same residence have to do with the legal validity of their marriage? I can think of many reasons why they might not be occupying the same residence.

I also want to know if expats stick with the retirement visa even if they same-sex marry a Thai, are they still eligible for all the benefits of marriage, such as inheritance, making the medical decisions if one is incapacitated, etc?

Upon death, does money from the deceased's bank account now belong to the surviving spouse or does it have to go through probate the same as is money is left via a will?

I understand if maybe there are no answers yet, but no matter what research reveals, speaking only for myself I would not enter into a marriage with a Thai without first consulting a reputable Thai attorney.

[Dodger]

I also want to know if expats stick with the retirement visa even if they same-sex marry a Thai, are they still eligible for all the benefits of marriage, such as inheritance, making the medical decisions if one is incapacitated, etc?

I think the short answer to your question is; Yes.

The intention is for gay marriages to mirror str8 marriages in all regards within the same legal framework. If by chance there was any deviation from this I know that Jai and I wouldn't be interested. I imagine a lot of other gay couples would feel the same.

I imagine the reason they perform house inspections for those holding "Marriage Visas" (if in fact they even bother doing these) is to discourage foreigners from marrying a Thai just for the purpose of lowering the financial requirements.

[Gaybutton]

I imagine the reason they perform house inspections for those holding "Marriage Visas" (if in fact they even bother doing these) is to discourage foreigners from marrying a Thai just for the purpose of lowering the financial requirements.

I think you're right about whether those inspections actually take place mainly because there are many valid reasons why married couples might not be occupying the same residence. For example, one spouse works in a different city and is only home occasionally. Another example might be the Thai spouse might have to go to the hometown to take care of a long-term problem such as a sick relative and the farang spouse remains in his primary residence.

In other words, if the couple is not occupying the same residence, what does that actually prove? And again, if the police are convinced something phony is going on, what happens then?

[2lz2p]

And if, as you say, this has been done for many years, my next question is WHY? To prevent in-name-only marriages making it possible for expats to keep 400,000 in a Thai bank account rather the 800,000? What does whether the couple is occupying the same residence have to do with the legal validity of their marriage?

As mentioned the "home visit" is something that is done and has been for heterosexual foreigners basing their permission to stay in Thailand on the basis of marriage. And "yes" it is primarily to prevent "in name" marriages, for those that want to stay in Thailand and can't meet the 800k/65k monthly rule for retirees, but can qualify using the 400k/40k monthly rule for marriage extension. Another reason for a fake marriage is to allow someone under the age of 50 to get annual extensions. Although retirees can use a combo method (income + money in bank), it cannot be used for marriage extensions. For them, it is one or the other. Another possible plus is if married to a Thai, you can get a work permit and be employed whereas retirees are prohibited from working. The home visit also often includes the Immigration Officers interviewing neighbors to verify the couple are living together as would be expected for a married couple.

If the visit concludes it is a fake marriage, I cannot say what will happen as I don't recall ever seeing a report about such an event. But the least would most likely be having the extension denied (as I noted in my earlier post, when you apply for a marriage extension, you get a 30 day "under consideration" permission to stay. The home visit is usually within that 30 day period). Also, for most cases it is a one time visit prior to extension approval - although it is possible there could be other visits during the year, but from reports I have seen, that is a rare event. Of course, if it was a "fake" marriage, I'm sure other criminal laws could apply involving arrest and jail/fine.

As to the rights of a gay married couple, it appears that the answer would be "Yes, they are entitled to all the rights that a heterosexual married couple have as the proposed gay marriage law provides for changing all the other laws to remove the man married to a woman provisions and will use the term "spouse." The Immigration issue would only apply to foreigners who wanted to get one year permissions to stay (although not mentioned in the other articles, etc., a foreigner married to a Thai can also apply for a one time 60 day extension instead of the one year period).

In the previous proposed laws for legalizing same sex marriage or partner, they allowed for it to be done by Thai/Thai and Thai/foreign gay couples. They excluded foreign/foreign gay couples. According the the recent articles, the law that is currently be considered for approval will recognize all gay marriages. Thus, as currently allowed for heterosexual married couples, if two gay foreigners wanted to marry in Thailand, they could register their marriage in Thailand or, if already legally married in another country, that marriage would be recognized here. As to Immigration issues, that would mean only one of the two would need to meet the financial requirements for retiree extensions and the other could "piggy back" on their spouses extension.