Gay Hotel Beijing

[Jun]

I know quite a few Chinese students with good English & they're all quite sociable.

[Gaybutton]

Yes, but the responses on this thread so far are talking about Chinese guys who are apparently traveling on their own. I'm talking about the tour groups.

At the top of my soi there is a hotel that caters to those tour groups. Every day, at night three to six tour buses arrive at that hotel. They load up and leave in the morning. Often, not long after they've checked in a small group of them come walking down my soi to do a little exploring. Large or small, they're always in a group. When I encounter them I try to be friendly - a hello, a smile, a nod - whatever. I have yet to ever have so much as a response. They completely ignore it and keep right on walking. I have no idea why, but that's the behavior I experience. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or perhaps they are instructed to avoid communicating with Caucasian foreigners or what accounts for it, but that is why I was asking about the behavior one encounters on a trip to China.

[bao-bao]

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or perhaps they are instructed to avoid communicating with Caucasian foreigners or what accounts for it, but that is why I was asking about the behavior one encounters on a trip to China.

My guess is that you've hit on the main reason right there, GB... "Just stay with the group".

I'm planning to visit there next year some time, I'm sure I'll be writing about experiences there myself, and I'll try to remember to search/revive this thread then and toss in my two fen's worth.

[fountainhall]

I don't know if it's a cultural thing or perhaps they are instructed to avoid communicating with Caucasian foreigners

They're certainly not instructed to avoid communicating with any foreigners! That's way out of date. As I said, because most have rarely travelled outside China, they feel far more comfortable in groups. If they don't speak English, then there is a loss of face issue if they were to admit it by trying to respond to your greeting. If you want a reaction, just try saying "Ni hao" - "ni" in a highish tone and then "hao" in a lower tone that rises. It means basically "How are you?" I'll bet that will raise a smile and a few "Ni haos" from the groups!

More and more, Chinese with a bit more cash, especially from the big cities, are starting to travel individually or with friends. They're the ones you'll see occasionally in bars and elsewhere. But the groups have a pretty regimented schedule for most hours of the day.

[Gaybutton]

just try saying "Ni hao" - "ni" in a highish tone and then "hao" in a lower tone that rises. It means basically "How are you?" I'll bet that will raise a smile and a few "Ni haos" from the groups!

I'll try that, although I don't really accept your explanation that just because they've never traveled outside of their country before, they totally ignore me, as if I didn't exist, when I try to be friendly when a small group is walking down my street and I happen to be outside at the time. All of them are too timid to so much as give a quick nod? Every last one of them? I don't buy that. Also, I don't know that it's the first time out of their country for all of them. I don't know whether that's the case or not, but even if it is, none of what you're saying satisfactorily explains the behavior I experience every single time. There must be some other explanation.

The timidity factor doesn't make much sense to me. I've been to many places in both Thailand and Laos where it's perfectly obvious that no one there speaks a word of anything but their own language and few, if any, have ever been more than 50 miles from home in their lives, and yet they're always very friendly. So, what's the problem with these Chinese groups?

I also am not ready to accept the idea that they are no longer instructed, or at least advised, to avoid Caucasian foreigners. Unless you are part of their tour group and speak their language, how can you possibly know what they are or are not told?

Actually none of that really matters very much to me, although I'm curious, because the intent of my question was to find out how they behave toward Caucasian foreigners who visit China. I'm not talking about well educated, more sophisticated individuals. I'm talking about the average guy on the street - especially in smaller towns.

[bbillybb]

I had the opportunity this April to visit Beijing and Xian. I did the tour thing with a young man whom I had met on the internet. I had initially booked by visiting Utopia and finding Kelvins Studio but in the end he had decided only to rent out by the month. I do not think that you will find a gay hotel as such. I wonder if you will visit all the sites as there are many. Do you have company who speaks the language? I arranged a tour with just me and my friend through http://www.tour-beijing.com

The guide spoke English well and was thoroughly versed on the subjects. I strongly suggest to visit the site and go through it a lot. I also think using their guide as well as their taxis is the way to go for the first time. It is a HUGE city and unless you have help you will not be able to get along well. If what you wish to do is visit the sites go it that way. They will get you there fast and move you along and set up a great itinerary. I don't know your pocketbook but it will be worth the money to have the ease of movement. If you go down to Xian you will see a lot also. It is amazing.

If you are going for the gay life...well....I'd say you will need a speaker to get you around wherever it is. . If you would like more info on my trip surely get in touch. I can expound more. As someone said...Shanghai is more of the nitelife place to be.

Good Luck

[fountainhall]

There must be some other explanation.

In a word - why? You are applying an understanding of the social norms of your own upbringing and experience to those of others from a very different country I believe you have never visited. They don't always intersect.

I get pissed off when I hold doors open for Thais and I'm lucky if one in a hundred says thanks (in Thai or English). My upbringing prompts me to say thanks automatically. Thai upbringing does not. Cultural differences are everywhere. The only difference is that after years of living here we are accustomed to Thai ways.

[Gaybutton]

There must be some other explanation.

In a word - why?

Because that's the response, or lack of same, that I get from every one of them. Obviously I could be wrong, but attributing it to social norms makes little sense to me unless every person who comes from China has exactly the same social norms and behavior patterns.

As long as I've lived in Thailand, yes I suppose I'm accustomed to Thai ways, but if I live here another 1000 years there are many of those ways I doubt I'll ever truly understand. I also think I've lived in Thailand long enough to know better than to apply western standards, customs, and mindsets to the Thai people or people from any other Asian country.

[fountainhall]

I also think I've lived in Thailand long enough to know better than to apply western standards, customs, and mindsets to the Thai people or people from any other Asian country.

Which, with all respect, is why I can't understand your lack of recognition about possible different standards, customs and mindsets of Chinese groups! As we know, groups travelling from China generally adopt a herd mentality. We really have to remember that many of the older ones were brought up to despise foreigners. They blame foreigners for the destruction of much of their country throughout the 19th and the first half of the 20th centuries. Of course, that was partly an inevitable result of the corruption and slow collapse of the Manchu dynasty; but blaming foreigners for the rape and occupation of their coastline and the Japanese for their occupation and ghastly atrocities is easier - and I'm sure that is how the history is taught in Chinese schools, even today. So, for the vast masses who do not live in the big cities, there remains a considerable degree of distrust. If you are invited to their villages and towns, they will show you a great deal of hospitality. But when they are on your ground, they are wary. After all, in southern China non-Chinese are called "gweilo" - meaning in common slang, "foreign devils"!

Try an occasional 'ni-hao'. I am sure it will result in a smile and a few 'ni-haos' in response. But be careful with your pronunciation. After all, the Cantonese word for '9' has nine different meanings depending on how it is said. And one meaning is part of the male anatomy!

[Gaybutton]

I can't understand your lack of recognition about possible different standards, customs and mindsets of Chinese groups!

Well, maybe I'm missing something, but I never said it isn't possible. What I am saying is whether that's the case or not, it still doesn't constitute an explanation that works for me. I've never heard of a cultural norm anywhere in the world in which people are expected to totally ignore an obvious greeting from someone else.

I'm not trying to be difficult either, but I don't know why you would know more about it than others. If you do, it would be much more convincing and easier to accept your explanation if you would tell us. I have no experience at all in China other than four days in Hong Kong. That, and eating in Chinese restaurants constitutes my total experience with China and the Chinese. How much experience do you have and what do you know - not guess, but know - about their culture?

I do intent, however, to try "Ni hao" and see how that works. If I mispronounce it, maybe I'll at least get them looking at me strangely, which would be more than I've gotten so far . . .