TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

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Bob
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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Bob » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:37 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:28 pm
Unfortunately, the video also confirms that so far retirement visa holders still are legally required to submit a TM28, at the immigration office, when returning home from a trip out of your residence province if that trip is 24 hours or longer.
Different provinces obviously have different applications of the rules. Here in Chiangmai, they don't want any TM28 forms (those that I know who have tried to submit one have had them handed back with a "we don't want that" comment).
As for the TM6 deal, I don't quite understand why anybody would complain about filling one of those out. Heck, what else do you have to do while on a long flight to Thailand?

As I've said (bitched about?) many times before, Thailand desperately needs to hire a few teenage techies to design an online reporting system that actually works. For example only, why not have somewhat of a permanent online file for foreigners (one you get into using a username and password). Once logged in:
(1) There'd be a button to push for a TM 30 update and you'd simply enter the date you entered the country (or, for the more unfortunate, for returning to your TM30 residence from Nakorn Nowhere elsewhere in Thailand).
(2) There'd be another button for 90-day address reporting and, once you've pushed that, you'd have two more button choices - one that says same address & print and the other saying new address (and you'd simply fill in the new address and then print).

It could be easy. And perhaps that's why it'll never happen.

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:00 am

Bob wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:37 am
Different provinces obviously have different applications of the rules. Here in Chiangmai, they don't want any TM28 forms (those that I know who have tried to submit one have had them handed back with a "we don't want that" comment).
I think the whole idea of having to report that you have returned home is absurd. First, expats on retirement visas are the least likely people to be out there committing crimes. Second, those traveling somewhere are most likely going to stay at hotels and the hotels submit the required reports.

Once you check out, what is the purpose of reporting that you have returned home? If you are going somewhere else first, that's likely to be another hotel. If not, then you are going home. Where else would you be going? What is the point of having to go to immigration to report it?

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by fountainhall » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:04 am

Registration at and visiting the Chiang Mai Immigration office may be a relatively simple affair. It is far from that in Bangkok. It's a long way out of town requiring around Bt. 700 in taxis, traffic jams and the queues once inside are horrendous. A four or five hour wait is not uncommon.

What I fail to understand is that on renewing the retirement visa 2 or 3 years ago the rules had changed again and it was necessary for apartment owners to take along with their other documents their proof of ownership documentation. That rule lasted one year, but it means that Inmigration already has in my file proof of my apartment ownership. Now I have to go through all that nonsense again simply because the idiots in Immigration don't know that they actually have the information. Mind you, that assumes my file is not stuck in another massive warehouse somewhere along with all those arrival and departure cards that no-one in Immigration realised they'd not have time to read!

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Bob » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:49 am

I have no problem with any country wanting to know where foreigners are residing (hence I have no problem with the original TM30 reporting or updating when re-entering the country). The only issue to me is how easy it is to do (condolences to BKK and other people who have a major hassle and significant expense getting to their Immigration office, have long waits, and/or have to update TM30's upon staying anywhere else in-country for 24+ hours).
No doubt my having "no problem" relates to how it works in Chiangmai. Apparently we have it easy compared to other provinces (mind you, our "easy" has only happened since the beginning of this year; prior to that, we had long waits for damn near everything).

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:51 am

fountainhall wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:04 am
A four or five hour wait is not uncommon.
Not only that, but imagine waiting five hours only to be told they don't even want the form. Unless they abolish the ridiculous forms or at least come up with a good app, then either way you end up going through a nightmare.

My own hope is Pattaya immigration makes it clear that they either don't want the TM28 upon returning home or they come up with a way to report online if they really think those reports are useful to them. I hope they'll tell people to just ignore it. If I would have to really go through that nonsense every time I travel somewhere for more than 24 hours, I would be reluctant to travel very often - if at all.

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Dodger » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:44 pm

Bob wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:37 am
Here in Chiangmai, they don't want any TM28 forms (those that I know who have tried to submit one have had them handed back with a "we don't want that" comment).
That's just too funny... :lol:

Here they are, telling everyone in the Kingdom that the TM28 has to be used by residents (retiree's) or face the penalty for breaking the law. And then when someone tries to actually submit one, immigration tells them they don't want to even see it. This is like a cartoon.

Jomtien isn't going to want to see them either. Because to see them, they have to do something with them, and nobody knows what that "something" is.

The TM28 has one foot in the grave and the other one on a banana peel. Could it have ended any other way?

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:25 pm

Dodger wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:44 pm
Could it have ended any other way?
Until this law is officially off the books, it hasn't ended. Suppose you go to immigration and are told you don't need to bother with the TM28 and they don't want it.

Then later you find yourself fined or even possibly denied retirement visa renewal because you didn't submit it.

As outrageous as that scenario might be, does anyone here truly believe something like that cannot happen? This law needs to be done away with or at least an announcement made saying retirement visa holders are exempt.

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Dodger » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:27 pm

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:25 pm
Dodger wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:44 pm
Could it have ended any other way?
Until this law is officially off the books, it hasn't ended. .
According to published statements made by the Deputy Prime Minister of Legal Affairs last year, many of the laws in Thailand are obsolete (outmoded) and a major overhaul is needed, with some of the laws being referenced dating back 600 years ago. I think during that period in time they were still carving laws in sandstone.

That being the case, I really don't think too many people are going to wait 600 years to see if they remove the TM28 requirements from law. If they (Immigration) don't request it, then, for all practical purposes, it can (or should) be considered obsolete. Still on the books, Yes. Enforced, No.

See link below:

https://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnew ... ete-204447

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Gaybutton » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:57 pm

Dodger wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:27 pm
Still on the books, Yes. Enforced, No.
I agree with what you're saying, but you are stating your opinion, not a fact. I think you know as well as I do that much of what takes place at immigration is at the whim of the officer you happen to be dealing with. You may get an officer who tells you not to bother with it and you may get one who insists on it because "the law is the law."

You are quoting an article that appeared in March 2018, but this "crackdown" on filing the TM28 began in March 2019.

I think we can both agree that these laws need to be thrown out.

If the only penalty for non compliance would be a fine of a few hundred baht, I would have no problem with that. But the way it stands now, failure to comply has the potential for denial of the retirement visa extension. I don't think that would happen, but I don't know that won't happen.

If you are willing to risk it, go ahead. But I am not about to take even the slightest, most remote risk of losing my retirement visa for the sake of saving a trip to immigration. When they give us an online app for reporting, make an official announcement that it is not necessary for O and O-A visa holders to file the TM28, or abolish the law, that's when I won't worry about it.

Until then, if I leave the province for more than 24 hours, as much as I dislike doing it I'm most likely going to go to immigration and file the TM28. I'll let immigration be the ones to tell me not to bother, not what people say on message boards. Besides, whenever I go to Pattaya immigration, I like to stop in at that Italian grocery store on Jomtien 2nd Road, just outside of immigration - where I usually end up parking.

It is also my understanding that those who wish to do so, can file the TM28 at local police stations rather than going to immigration. In my case, I know the police officers who patrol my neighborhood and I have a couple of their phone numbers. I might even call and ask one of them to drop by and pick up the TM28 rather than bothering to even go to the police station. I downloaded it from http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/bas ... e=download , filled it out, and saved it. All I have to do is print it out, sign it, and date it.

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Re: TM6 - the arrival and departure cards - to end, TM30 app to be created

Post by Dodger » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:09 am

Gaybutton wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:57 pm
It is also my understanding that those who wish to do so, can file the TM28 at local police stations rather than going to immigration.
If by chance you decide to go ahead and file TM28 Reports every time you travel outside your province, according to the law (Immigration Act B.E. 2522, Section 37, Paragraph 4) you would provide the TM28 Report to the local police station in the province (or town) where you have traveled to within 48 hours of your arrival, not to your local police or immigration office (Jomtien).

SEE LAW BELOW:

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0127.pdf

If I were to walk in to the local police station in my boyfriend's remote village in Isaan holding one of these TM28 Forms in my hand - they'd just sit there looking at me cross-eyed and probably start laughing.

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