By Barry Kenyon

[Gaybutton]

Upcoming changes to Thailand’s 60 days visa exempt

By Barry Kenyon

September 5, 2024

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is boosting the introduction of the new ETA (Electronic Travel Authorization) which will be compulsory for visa exempt foreigners each and every time before they enter Thailand by air, land or sea. Although the ETA is not technically a visa, it is certainly a computerized check rather like the upcoming ETIAS program for visa exempt visitors to the European Union’s Schengen area which is designed to enhance security, discourage irregular migration and monitor high epidemic risks. Email confirmation that entry is permitted will normally be issued within 24 hours.

Thailand’s 60 days visa exempt policy for 93 countries – in reality covering the vast majority of foreign tourists – was introduced in mid-July. No prior approval is required and the 60 days can become 90 days by applying at a Thai immigration office. It is then possible to leave the country for an hour or so – using the border run minibus tours widely available – and repeat the whole process. Indefinitely, as many people believe, making it questionable whether foreigners need bother with Elite, retirement extensions, family visas etc etc.

The advent of the ETA is scheduled for a phased entry in Thailand between December 2024 and June 2025 and is expected to be free. It will apply solely to visa exempt arrivals and require an application to the e-portal www.thaievisa.go.th which is fast becoming the entry norm for most visitors here across the board. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has not yet published the fine print, so nobody yet knows what documents will need to be uploaded as part of the vetting procedure. One possibility is the need to show an accommodation address in Thailand as well as a flight out of the country in addition to an inward-bound ticket. A similar system is operated in Malaysia as well as, in part anyway, Cambodia. ETAs in fact are becoming universal.

Another unknown is whether the algorithm-based ETA system will include trigger points to limit the number of 60 days entries for an individual. Until July of this year, Thai immigration limited visa-free entrants to two border trips in a year but has since apparently rescinded the rule. The ETA could reimpose limitations with a computerized rejection slip (rather than a human immigration officer) curtly informing that “you need to get a proper visa”. The ETA will not be required for diplomats, but there appears to be no exemption for tourists over the age of 70. Some countries use such an exemption as many older people are believed to be non-computer literate.

Once granted, the ETA email authorization sent to applicants will allow entry through electronic immigration gates by using the QR code on the document. The ETA computerized checks will include passport authenticity, any record of criminal or outrageous behavior in Thailand and any relevant Interpol notices. These are the same checks as currently undertaken by immigration officers at airports or border posts. But they can be time-consuming or lead to arguments which will be avoided in the ETA system.

As with the completely separate Thai personal income tax move for Thais and foreigners living in Thailand for 180 days or more in a calendar year, there is much we do not know about the ETA except that it’s coming for sure. Will airline staff be expected to check for the email before boarding? The ETA could even be linked to tax issues as repeated use of visa exempt (or the Destination Thailand Visa if extended at immigration) would identify these individuals as tax residents once they remit funds into the country. Hopefully, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will be forthcoming well in advance about the many details within their cognizance.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... mpt-471063

[Gaybutton]

The first thing I notice about this visa is the financial requirement is 500,000 baht in a bank account rather than the 800,000 for the retirement visa even though the amount of time the visa holder can stay in Thailand after jumping through a couple hoops is the same as the retirement visa - and it may not necessarily have to be a Thai bank account. 300,000 baht less than the retirement visa.

At least for the time being I'll be sticking with the "devil I know" - the retirement visa. I don't think I would qualify for this DTV visa anyway.
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Destination Thailand Visa proving very popular innovation

By Barry Kenyon

September 6, 2024

The Thai government’s pioneering DTV option for long stay foreigners is stimulating great interest amongst expat communities here and abroad. There are basically three markets: remote workers with contracts from overseas-based companies but no business within Thailand, “soft power applications” from those enrolling on skills-based education courses (or medical treatment) and a family visa for those with legal partners and/or children under 20. No official statistics are currently available, but staff at the Thai embassies in neighboring countries suggest well over 1,000 applications worldwide in less than two months. Most of the visas granted so far appear to be in the digital nomad category.

There are several key advantages to DTV. It has long validity – five years with multiple-entry – which surpasses the traditional one year extensions of stay for retirement or marriage. The official enrollment fee is 10,000 baht ($US30) for an initial 180 days which can be extended for another 180 days, if wished, for a 1,900 baht fee at local immigration. But it is then necessary to leave the kingdom – briefly if you like – and return to begin the process all over again.

There is a financial guarantee of 500,000 baht ($US16,000), but this is cheaper than the much larger sums required for traditional visas or the five years’ Elite which requires a non-returnable 900,000 ($US26,000). Many retirees in Thailand are looking carefully at the cost-benefit analysis. All they have to do is to find a justification to apply for the DTV, although some agencies in Thailand are already partnering Muay Thai academies or cookery schools to prove enrollment in advance of arrival here.

Although DTV applications can be made online, they are actually referred to the appropriate embassy for consideration. Applications are not accepted from within Thailand, or shouldn’t be. Here a few ambiguities creep in. The Thai embassy in Washington DC specifies that the 500,000 baht bond must be in the form of a checking or savings account credited to the applicant, whereas the Laos diplomatic post includes payslips or other financial guarantees. The Laos embassy is also cheaper as it does not include a service charge beyond the 10,000 baht. Washington DC charges $US400 or 13,600 baht.

Ordinarily, DTV applications are made from within the home country, but not necessarily. If the applicant can show residence in or ties to another country (proof of employment or residential lease for example) that’s acceptable. The Washington DC embassy requires extra documentation from all foreigners who don’t have a US passport or a permanent resident card, but in Laos extras are required only from applicants from 28 “controversial” countries (Iran, Iraq, North Korea etc). As always, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs allows embassies to set their own policies within a broad framework.

Given all the advantages of DTV, embassy discretion notwithstanding, this new kid on the block could upend the traditional visa framework and regulations as the Thai government strains to boost immediate revenue. There are, of course, ambiguities such as whether the 500,000 baht bond is ever checked for updating or whether one hospital appointment for surgery will cover you for five years. As things stand, the multi-entry visa is valid for five years and there has been no announcement to date that immigration officers will query documentation at entry or extension over the validity period. However, the safeguard is that you can always apply for another visa during the validity period which will cancel the DTV. Let’s hope you don’t need to.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ion-471187

[Dodger]

I know they're still in the "Tossing the Stone" mode with this, but from Barry is saying (rough sketch I know) I personally don't see where DTV offers any advantages at all for retied expats on annual extensions.

[Gaybutton]

I personally don't see where DTV offers any advantages at all for retied expats on annual extensions.

I don't see any advantages either, which is why I'm planning to stick with the retirement visa. I may be wrong, but it looks to me that eligibility depends on making money as a "digital nomad", whatever that means, other than retirement pensions and Social Security, in Thailand. And where does the threat of income tax fit in, if indeed it fits in at all?

Anyway, I don't want to jump through the hoops of having to leave Thailand, which amounts to a visa run, then return and start the process over again, dealing with immigration and the whims of immigration officers. No thanks.

My main question is if 500,000 baht satisfies the Thai government for this visa, why are expat retirees still stuck with 800,000 baht? 300,000 baht is quite a difference and I would think most expats on the retirement visa do have medical insurance whether required or not. I didn't notice any requirement at all for medical insurance to be eligible for this DTV visa.

Aren't they ever going to do anything for us retirement visa expats?

[Gaybutton]

Thai tax reform and the Golden Goose

By Barry Kenyon

September 10, 2024

Integrity Legal, an influential network of law firms in USA and Asia, has condemned the proposal of the Thai Revenue Department to tax Thai and foreign residents on their worldwide income irrespective of whether those monies are brought to Thailand. The current regulations (effective January 2024) permit only the taxing of “assessable” income actually transferred from abroad.

In their latest video, the Bangkok-based firm points out that a worldwide policy ruling would strongly deter investment in Thailand, especially as Thai Revenue has no actual jurisdiction to control assets outside the country. If such a radical policy were to be introduced, it would first require a formal change in Thai law which is by no means a formality.

Meanwhile Pichai Chunhavajira, the finance minister delivering a keynote address Shaping Tomorrow, said that current personal and corporate income tax rates remain higher than in competition countries and should be rejigged. He made no mention of the income tax situation for Thai and foreign tax residents. Not a single government spokesperson so far has endorsed, or even commented on, the Revenue’s radical proposal to tax worldwide income, even though first mooted last June.

Social media in Thailand has prophecies that the issuing of annual extensions of stay are about to become dependent on income tax clearance in Thailand. There has been no confirmation from the Cabinet or the immigration bureau. Such a policy would present all manner of problems. For example, many holders of longterm visas, such as Elite, spend less than six months per year in Thailand, whilst notional tourists can easily exploit the new visa exempt rules to clock up more than 180 days in a calendar year. A person’s visa status does not magically show tax liability, or the lack of it.

Thai Revenue, of course, has the role of recommending courses of action to increase national tax income. However, Integrity Legal’s warning that the Golden Goose is in danger of self-assassination illustrates the threat of continuing silence by government ministers or the Cabinet. As many expats threaten to quit living here and the national economy continues to struggle, the need for proper debate is already well overdue.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ose-471720

[Gaybutton]

As many expats threaten to quit living here and the national economy continues to struggle, the need for proper debate is already well overdue.

While I agree with that, in my opinion the most important thing for the powers-that-be to do is relieve the anxiety so many expats are worrying about simply by telling us, clearly, whether they plan to tax pensions and Social Security or not or plan to violate tax treaties.

I don't understand the silence about it. They must know how expats have been reacting. Give us break and tell us one way or the other. We all need to know, not guess, just where we stand on this.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to say anything about it. They are either intentionally avoiding it or they don't know themselves what they're going to do. If they don't know yet, then at least tell us that.

In the meantime I am still firmly convinced that those of us living solely on our pensions and Social Security are not going to be taxed. The trick is how they would verify. Are they going to take our word for it or launch some sort of investigation on all of us? How would they do that? Are we going to hear that we have to prove it? The only way I know to prove it would be providing a copy of our tax returns. And what will happen next when they figure out that some are "proving it" with fraudulent tax returns?

This whole brouhaha is, for lack of a better way of putting it, totally fucked up.

[Jun]

1 I haven't seen anything at all which suggests Thailand would violate double tax treaties. Have you ?
There is plenty of scope for them to collect some taxes and still comply with those treaties. Taxes on dividends etc. Just like other countries. They're not reinventing the wheel here.

2 As for verification, there are arrangements for cooperating countries to share information related to taxation. That's probably one reason why, when opening a bank account abroad, they ask for your tax ID/National Insurance number or whatever.
How thorough that information sharing is is an unknown.
However, would any intelligent person risk a fraudulent tax return, when it might affect visa renewals ?
Or is that simply another problem that can be solved by tea money ?

[Gaybutton]

I haven't seen anything at all which suggests Thailand would violate double tax treaties. Have you ?

Not me. I haven't seen a thing. I don't recall anything at all from the government about taxes, only speculation by all the "experts".

If it ever does come to that about information sharing, who would be responsible for obtaining it? If it's us, I have no idea how to get it or who to even ask for it.

As for showing a fraudulent tax return, you're right. No intelligent person would try to do that. Of course there are plenty of farang who don't seem to have much intelligence. I think there would be a few who would try it.

[Gaybutton]

Thailand’s 5-20 year visa now slightly cheaper

By Barry Kenyon

September 13, 2024

The Thai Privilege Visa (TPV), formerly known as Elite, has suspended its 50,000 baht or US$1,500 registration fee imposed to check the background of applicants. The fee cancellation applies to all applications received from the beginning of September to the end of the calendar year 2024. TPV offers a range of visas from 5 to 20 years, each with their own perks and bonuses, with current charges from 900,000 baht to over 2 million baht.

In a news release, the Privilege company (which is 100 percent owned by the Tourist Authority of Thailand) said the aim was to encourage more new members at a time of economic uncertainty and changes in visa policy by the Thai government. In reality, the timing of the move suggests that the root cause is the rise of several alternatives, such as the 10-year Long Term Residence and the recently-announced 5-year Destination Thailand Visa. It is also now possible for most visitors to receive 60 days on arrival without a visa, obtain a month’s extension at Thai immigration and repeat the whole procedure by joining a minibus border hop.

The Elite visa was first announced in 2003 and was transferred to the Privilege Card in 2013. It has always offered multi-entry entries and perks such as fast-track at Thai airports and discounts at specified retail outlets, hotels, spas and golf courses. However, the numbers joining remained disappointing, until the Covid pandemic saw an increase in applications from well-heeled visitors wanting to enter and leave Thailand at will. The current enrolment is unknown but is commonly thought to be about 30,000 with the largest contingent from China.

Originally the brainchild of then-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Elite (as it was then known) failed to achieve target numbers. Initial promises that the visa would allow members to buy in their own name a small plot of land to build a residence were vetoed by the Cabinet. In recent years, the rules of the different categories have become complex with the more generous perks reserved for the higher-cost options. All nationalities are now able to apply, except North Koreans, but the future of the visa overall remains a controversial subject. Of course, that was always true.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... per-472101

[Dodger]

More money making antics. It never stops.

They should only have two visa types: 1) Tourist Visa - (up to 90 day stays), and 2) Long Stay - for everyone else, i.e. work. education,, medical reasons, and retirement, etc.

Tourist visa's should be free, and long stay around 1,900/year sounds about right.

Enough with all of this bullshit.