By Barry Kenyon

[Jun]

The Thai government has at long last begun the issuing of official identification cards to Myanmar economic migrants even if they entered illegally.

About time.
Thailand allegedly has a low labour shortage & what could be better than filling that with a few migrants from a neighbouring country, who even follow the same religion & ought to fit in well ?

[Gaybutton]

what could be better than filling that with a few migrants from a neighbouring country

I agree providing they are taking jobs Thais are refusing. But I would disagree if they are costing Thais their own jobs or competing with Thais.

[Jun]

I agree providing they are taking jobs Thais are refusing. But I would disagree if they are costing Thais their own jobs or competing with Thais.

They claim there is a labour shortage in Thailand. My solution would be to fire all the people doing pointless jobs, such as at immigration. However, if Thailand can't manage that, more people is a solution.

Also, most of the "good" jobs will require someone who speaks fluent Thai.
So any Thai who can't compete with someone from Myanmar ought to work a little harder at their own skill sets.

[Gaybutton]

My solution would be to fire all the people doing pointless jobs, such as at immigration.

What I would want to do rather than fire them would be to transfer them to positions where the lines and wait times are the longest. They need more staff at those positions. The ones doing pointless jobs would at least be beneficial in those jobs and shortening wait times.

Of course, the jobs dealing with the longest wait times usually are the pointless jobs. Why in the world they don't put more in online apps rather than forcing people to physically go to immigration goes beyond me, but there it is.

[Jun]

What I would want to do rather than fire them would be to transfer them to positions where the lines and wait times are the longest. They need more staff at those positions. The ones doing pointless jobs would at least be beneficial in those jobs and shortening wait times.

Out of all the "work" that's processed at Jomtien immigration, I would think a very high proportion is either unnecessary or would be better automated.

Once it's automated & is efficient, collecting bribes should become slightly more difficult. Although, they did find a way with the "Thai Pass".

Of course, the jobs dealing with the longest wait times usually are the pointless jobs. Why in the world they don't put more in online apps rather than forcing people to physically go to immigration goes beyond me, but there it is.

If the immigration service were quick and efficient, why would anyone use an agency & pay tea money ?
Deliberate inefficiency is one price of uncontrolled corruption.

[Gaybutton]

Deliberate inefficiency is one price of uncontrolled corruption.

That statement puts the whole thing into a nutshell. I'd say the chances of it ever changing are virtually nil. It's a way of life here. I always get a kick out of it every time I read about those in powerful anti-corruption positions get caught in the midst of their own corruption.

[Gaybutton]

Meanwhile, still not a single word from the Thai government to clarify this.
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Foreign retirees ponder whether to play ball or footsie with the Thai Revenue Department

By Barry Kenyon

October 15, 2024

The TRD rule revision – it’s not actually a change in the law – to tax assessable overseas income remitted to Thailand since January 1 2024 continues to baffle many elderly expats. A recent Pattaya poll of 100 retirees and Facebook blogger research suggest that the overwhelming majority have only a faint idea about the implications for them. The typical reaction stated was to carry on regardless with a threat to quit Thailand if the taxman comes knocking.

Of course, not everyone needs to worry. Those Thais or foreigners who spend less than a total of 180 days here in the calendar year 2024 are not deemed to be tax residents. Also exempt are those who are remitting income here which was actually earned in the year 2023, or earlier, as well as those who do not transfer any overseas cash at all in the current calendar year. Those who hold a 10-year Long Term Residence visa are also excused, although some accountants point to the small-print audit which will occur after the first five years completion.

Some expats have signed up with tax lawyers or accountants who offer to act on their behalf. The general advice given so far seems to emphasize that the company will take care, if necessary, when the form filling season is upon us – January to March 2025. One is kinda reminded of the requirement for expats leaving Thailand in the 1980s to get a civil servant to stamp an immigration-required form (the informal fee was 500 baht) which stated that there was no income tax due. Of course, tax affairs are much more sophisticated these days.

The experts are not unanimous. ASEAN Now runs a huge and popular forum about remitted income, but the top-notch contributors often disagree. Does use of a foreign credit card here count as assessable income? Are double taxation agreements the loophole hoped for? Is cash remitted to Thailand to buy a condominium taxable income? Is the TRD anyway interested in pensioned expats with a modest income? Will anything awful happen if you hide your head in the sand? Ask ten experts and you’ll get several contradictory interpretations.

Some commentators see the salvation army arriving in December. This is traditionally the season for TRD to print new forms, so maybe there will be a commentary (in English) making clear all that has hitherto been speculative. Others will say that detailed notes are not the TRD style. The Thai tax system is an honor exercise. That means it’s your responsibility to get a tax identification number and fill in a tax form if you believe you need to. It’s not required to provide supporting documentation unless later you are chosen for audit. The fact you submit a tax return does not necessarily mean you have anything to pay.

The real test for expats will be if the visa renewal process, for example for the annual retiree extensions at immigration, were to be linked to registration with TRD. But even that futuristic scenario is fraught with problems. It’s quite possible to clock up 180 days in a calendar year using visa exempt entries or tourist visas such as the new Destination Thailand Visa: simply extend at immigration or do a couple of border runs. Perhaps the best advice, at any rate for now, is to wait in the wings. Neighboring Vietnam specifically excludes overseas pension income from cash described as taxable. Such a welcome move here would turn the whole personal income tax debate upside down.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... ent-476178

[Jun]

One is kinda reminded of the requirement for expats leaving Thailand in the 1980s to get a civil servant to stamp an immigration-required form (the informal fee was 500 baht) which stated that there was no income tax due.

That's the kind of tax system I could handle.

The experts are not unanimous. ASEAN Now runs a huge and popular forum about remitted income, but the top-notch contributors often disagree.

Unfortunately, some people enjoy disagreement more than being helpful.

Perhaps the best advice, at any rate for now, is to wait in the wings. Neighboring Vietnam specifically excludes overseas pension income from cash described as taxable. Such a welcome move here would turn the whole personal income tax debate upside down.

For those living in Thailand who might already be building up a substantial tax liability, how could waiting in the wings be good advice ?
Also, not everyone derives most of their income from a pension. Tax on other income is highly relevant for a lot of people.

[Gaybutton]

For those living in Thailand who might already be building up a substantial tax liability, how could waiting in the wings be good advice ?

I don't know what other choice we have.

I just wish we would hear at least something official from the Thai government. They must know that expats are concerned about it. Maybe no news is good news, but again I repeat - don't worry until there is something to worry about.

[Gaybutton]

See also: https://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic ... 45#p115045
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Expats in Thailand should stop worrying about negative income tax

By Barry Kenyon

October 17, 2024

On top of current personal income tax woes on funds remitted from overseas, Thailand’s longstay foreigners are now being panicked by premature scares about negative income tax (NIT). Some English-language Thai news sites and social media are warning that NIT is imminent and will require all Thais, as well as foreign residents, to fill in tax forms under penalty early next year and disclose all their worldwide financial resources.

NIT is certainly being considered by sections of the Thai government, but would require a change in the law. Deputy minister of finance Julapun Amornvivat, who is in favour, said recently such a move would require “a few years” to appear formally on the statute book. The reality is that NIT is a framework for taxation and benefits, so you would need to see the details to ascertain the specifics. Nobody has access to any specifics at the present time.

Broadly speaking, NIT targets financial assistance to those with an income below a threshold determined by the government. Those below that threshold receive a cash subsidy on a sliding scale. Advocates of NIT say it will help the elderly, the unemployed and those on marginal incomes. Payments could be made easily via digital platforms such as Paotong and digital wallets. But we have no idea what the cash boundaries might be.

Another name for NIT is “workfare”. All Thai citizens earning one baht or more in a year would be required to register with the Thai Revenue Department and fill in an annual tax form. So for the first time, low-income street vendors, massage workers etc would be required to be part of the tax system. NIT means that, once their income rises above the government-stipulated level, they will become taxpayers and not tax beneficiaries.

Thus the real purpose of NIT, over time, is to increase the number of tax payers in Thailand from less than 30 percent to a near 100 percent. For example, an unemployed person who then gets a job would sooner or later earn a salary big enough to make him or her a tax payer. The finance ministry believes that the demographic time bomb – not enough babies being born – will mean that social security payments to the elderly need to be offset by widening income tax participation. Thailand is on the verge of becoming a super-aged society.

But the introduction of NIT in Thailand is not a foregone conclusion. It would initially require an increased budget allocation and would move the country strongly towards state control of the population. Any adult Thai who did not fill in a tax form annually would not receive benefits (assuming they were eligible) and would be subject to criminal penalties. Many critics of NIT also say it’s more appropriate to advanced economies than to developing countries. The implications for expats in Thailand are entirely speculative. Crunch time is years ahead. If ever.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... tax-476439