Are Naughty Boys Really Declining?

[Jun]

This post is about the decline in sex tourists - not who likes or dislikes the gogo's.

The thread title asks "Are Naughty Boys Really Declining ?"

All I know is we have never seen any data published on the topic, so we're reduced to guessing. TAT don't publish anything and perhaps are never likely to.

Bars have closed in one part of town and opened in another. Meanwhile, a lot of dating happens online. So I don't think we can draw any conclusions from metrics like counting gogo bars and gogo bar customers.

The flights from the UK to Thailand still seem to have a lot of single male tourists.
Incidentally, the tourist groups from India and the Middle East seem to have an even higher percentage of males. One guess why they choose Pattaya.

[Dodger]

With high season ending in a few weeks the bars will be shifting gears as they always do while trying to predict how bad low season will be.

The best barometer to gauge the flow of sex tourists has always been the bars themselves because of the lack of credible data, with the most accurate estimates coming from the bar owners themselves, and of course the sex workers.

The most common response I've heard coming from working boys and bar owners this past year is "not many customers anymore". As far as I'm concerned that pretty much sums it up. This of course is consistent with the noticeable decline in Thai boys working the scene - and increase in migrant sex workers who are willing to work for less (not lower tips - but fewer customers).

Something's better than nothing as they say. We'll just have to wait and see how the Market reacts to the changes in Thailand's host bar scenes (as they soften), as well as global economic conditions going forward.

As Monty used to say..."Evan one customer is better than a stick in the eye".

[Jun]

The best barometer to gauge the flow of sex tourists has always been the bars themselves because of the lack of credible data, with the most accurate estimates coming from the bar owners themselves, and of course the sex workers.

Counting bar visitors does not tell us the number of sex tourists.

(i)People don't need to visit the bars any more to find boys, as they can use the apps.
When I first came to Pattaya, I'd visit the gogo bars almost every night to find a boy.
Then that started reducing about 10 years ago, as I used the apps.

(ii) In some countries, including even the UK, young people drink less than previous generations. They're more likely to go to the gym. For fun, they may use drugs other than alcohol.

(iii) In Pattaya, the ridiculous growth in Cannabis cafes is probably absorbing some customers. I wouldn't rule out these also having sex.

(iv) Bar visitor stats include resident farang. I gather some of those have stopped visiting the bars.

(v) When counting bar visitors, you need to adjust for the demise of Sunee Plaza and the remarkable growth in the number of bars in Jomtien.

[Gaybutton]

I have a quite wealthy friend who visits Thailand occasionally. I like what he does. He throws a party for farang friends in the condo he rents, including plenty of food and booze. He also hires a good number of boys to be the waiters and the "entertainment" - and he also provides their attire - attire that leaves very little to the imagination.

Somehow that's a little better than going to bars . . .

[Dodger]

Not only do the bar owners have to contend with declining sex tourist numbers, but they're also impacted greatly by sex tourists who primarily stick to the apps for their boy fun versus spending money at the bars.

I'd be willing to bet that this has an even greater negative impact on profitability than the actual numbers of tourists in any given timeframe.

I mentioned before in a previous post that the last time I visited the bar scene in JC there didn't seem the be any shortage of customers sitting around at all, although 80% of them were glued to their smartphones versus hosting boys at their tables. The boys on the scene were doing the same. That told me that there's plenty of customers, and not necessarily any shortage of boys, but the lion's share of the money is going to boys working the apps instead of bars. No rocket science required.

There's a double-edged sword here: If the majority of punters want the bar scene to remain vibrant and loaded with hot boys going forward - they have to support it. If-in-fact the use of dating apps continues to accelerate as it has in the past 10 years, the bar scene will gradually dwindle down to nothing. This, unfortunately, is inevitable.

Beer (Nice Boys) told me years ago that he saw the dating apps as being the death blow to the bar scene. I hope he's not right.

[Gaybutton]

they're also impacted greatly by sex tourists who primarily stick to the apps for their boy fun versus spending money at the bars.

I believe the key for bar owners to do is try the suggestion I made for years, but fell on deaf ears. The bar owners seemed to think all they needed to do was open a venue, hire some boys, and do little else. There was a time when that worked. No more.

My suggestion was - and still is - start doing things that make your bar much more attractive than the apps. Give your customers a reason, a good reason, to go to your bar rather than sticking to the apps. Even if the bar owners need to get together and come up with ideas, they could work together to attract customers. Even offering free food buffets used to draw in the customers. Anyone seen anything similar lately?

I believe if the bar owners won't do anything, then the trend we've been witnessing for years will continue until the day comes when the only thing to be seen at any of the venues is the "For Sale" sign on the door. When staying home and watching re-runs of "I Love Lucy" is a more attractive prospect than going to the bars, then the bars are in big trouble.

I stopped going to the bars because of the availability of the apps, the prices, the lack of boys, the more conservative attire, the lights, paying more attention to their phones rather than the customers, and the excessively loud music.

Would you like to know my main reason - the one that supersedes those? I stopped going because (speaking only for myself) to me they simply became one big bore.

[Jun]

I have a quite wealthy friend who visits Thailand occasionally. I like what he does. He throws a party for farang friends in the condo he rents, including plenty of food and booze. He also hires a good number of boys to be the waiters and the "entertainment" - and he also provides their attire - attire that leaves very little to the imagination.

He has the right idea.

the bar owners have to contend with declining sex tourist numbers

Where's the evidence that sex tourist numbers are declining ?

We can't conclude that from counting bar visitors, as sex tourists don't need the bars any more. And various other reasons, already explained.

[Dodger]

Where's the evidence that sex tourist numbers are declining ?

...Sorry for laughing, but that sounds like a Trump question..." Where's the evidence that the climate is changing?"

[Jun]

...Sorry for laughing, but that sounds like a Trump question..." Where's the evidence that the climate is changing?"

A nice try, but this means you don't have an answer.

For climate change, we can measure temperatures. The temperature is irrefutably going up. The only debatable point is why and for that, there is some correlation between the theory and the results.

For the number of tourists, it seems all we have is perceptions based on the ESTIMATED number of people in bars.

Except, that people have been moaning about the low number of customers in bars for at least 20 years. Without even counting the numbers properly. You think that's reliable ?

A few bars have closed in Sunee, yet we have added about 30 bars in Jomtien. Jomtien is thriving, in an era where we know people don't need to visit bars to find boys any more.

Now where's the metric that shows gay tourist numbers are down ?

[Gaybutton]

Now where's the metric that shows gay tourist numbers are down ?

Not everything needs mathematical proof, does it? My eyes still work. I don't see how anyone can deny that the numbers of gay tourists frequenting the Pattaya bar scene are way down compared to years ago.

And as for going to the bars to find boys to take off, you've said it yourself in your observations that many of the farang you see in Jomtien Complex are apparently more interested in socializing with each other rather then there to find boys.