Saving Soi Twilight

[fountainhall]

But yes, what would happen? Tell me. Because it IS illegal. Yes? Then what would happen if you go to a higher authority and file charges. What would they say to you?

With respect you certainly don't know Thailand if you ask that sort of question! In responding, let me ask one of you. In your country, you "know" that a bar is bribing the police, but you have no proof. You have never seen bribes handed over and you have no witnesses. You are therefore acting purely on hearsay. But you also know the police are themselves involved in this sort of racket. How do you think the police would react? No need to answer because it is certain nothing would happen. Right?

What higher authority is there in Thailand? The Anti-Corruption Commission? People in this country are getting away with bribery involving millions of US$. E.g. the former head of the Tourist Association of Thailand whose bribes were paid into the Singapore bank accounts of her and her daughter and for which illegal action the American couple who provided the bribes were found guilty by the US courts in 2009 and sentenced to jail time, yet the aforesaid lady has still not been charged with anything in Thailand? Or the son of the Red Bull Heir who in 2012 mowed down a traffic policeman whilst allegedly doing around 200kph in his Ferrari, with alcohol and drugs in his blood and who has still, I understand, not been arrested? You think that Commission will give you even one minute to complain about a piddling bar bribe?

You don't even have to think of a line of reasoning or breaking the law. This is Thailand. TIT. Things happen. Ours not to reason why! If you try and make logical sense of everything that goes on in Thailand you will go crazy sooner rather than later!

[thaifarang]

If this remains so in Thailand it can forget ever to become a prosperious nation. Because a nation with no rule of law, where law enforcement is involved in cime, where the elite protects this situation and are not serious transforming Thailand to a modern nation will cause the country to lack behind. China is battling corruption just for this reason.

For those Farang living there, do you in your day to day live notice this unfreedom? As a tourist I don't. At least it feels free, in all regards, including morals (like open sex shows, gay tolerance, etc). It feels at least as a free nation for outsiders.

[Alex]

In many ways, living in Thailand actually feels more free than living in a Western country with its rule of law and over regulation. But that is an illusion, at least in parts, because no rule of law ultimately boils down to there being no guarantees whatsoever. A nice illusion while it lasts!

Reporting a corrupt official might well get you killed. In the best case, your business will be thoroughly investigated, and chances are they will find something. If you run a gogo bar, that's a non starter right away, because you are breaking so many laws that you really aren't in a position to cast the first stone...

[thaifarang]

In many ways, living in Thailand actually feels more free than living in a Western country with its rule of law and over regulation. But that is an illusion, at least in parts, because no rule of law ultimately boils down to there being no guarantees whatsoever. A nice illusion while it lasts!

Well said.

But it is also very worrying. Because what will happen if a Thai sees a wealthy farang and tells him "Give me 1 million baht or I go lie to police and tell them you raped me? ". If it is true what you say the Farang should better pay, because there are no guarantees at all he will get out of this.

I am surprised this doesn't happen then many times a day. It would make many Thai wealthy. Just threaten a Farang with going to police (while Farang did nothing wrong) and then it is just the roll of a dice what will happen to you. Many Farang will then pay, leave Thailand and never return.

(PS: if you can get killed by reporting a corrupt official it means a substantial part of law enforcement employs murderers? Thailand needs a police for the police.)

[Undaunted]

But it is also very worrying. Because what will happen if a Thai sees a wealthy farang and tells him "Give me 1 million baht or I go lie to police and tell them you raped me? ". If it is true what you say the Farang should better pay, because there are no guarantees at all he will get out of this.

I am surprised this doesn't happen then many times a day. It would make many Thai wealthy. Just threaten a Farang with going to police (while Farang did nothing wrong) and then it is just the roll of a dice what will happen to you. Many Farang will then pay, leave Thailand and never return.

You may not hear about it but who is to say it doesn't happen? In the U.S. the onus is placed upon the plaintiff to prove their case, in the U.K. the opposite and I suspect likewise in Thailand.

[thaifarang]

But it is also very worrying. Because what will happen if a Thai sees a wealthy farang and tells him "Give me 1 million baht or I go lie to police and tell them you raped me? ". If it is true what you say the Farang should better pay, because there are no guarantees at all he will get out of this.

I am surprised this doesn't happen then many times a day. It would make many Thai wealthy. Just threaten a Farang with going to police (while Farang did nothing wrong) and then it is just the roll of a dice what will happen to you. Many Farang will then pay, leave Thailand and never return.

You may not hear about it but who is to say it doesn't happen? In the U.S. the onus is placed upon the plaintiff to prove their case, in the U.K. the opposite and I suspect likewise in Thailand.

True. But doesn't it make you scared going there again? What if a Thai sees you, thinks you have money and does to you what I wrote above?
Scary.

In the UK the person accused must prove his innocence? OK, I book ticket to UK now, tell police a certain man (who I know is very wealthy and I know he was alone at home last night) raped me but I will drop charges if that man pays me 1 million EUR. That man will then pay me? Because he was home alone, no way he can prove he didn't drag me to his home and raped me.

Tomorrow I am a millionaire! Thanks for the tip (I am sarcastic of course, I just can't believe the law works like this in the UK)

[Undaunted]

In Thailand if you are a falang and you are in motor vehicle accident you are percieved as having wealth....a friend of mine had a minor accident, the police were called and told my friend who was innocent that if he was not here this wouldn't have happened then he was told to settle the matter.....you can figure out the rest!

[Gaybutton]

But it is also very worrying. Because what will happen if a Thai sees a wealthy farang and tells him "Give me 1 million baht or I go lie to police and tell them you raped me? ". If it is true what you say the Farang should better pay, because there are no guarantees at all he will get out of this.

Apparently you are under the impression that Thai police, prosecutors, and courts are utter idiots. The police do conduct investigations and if the accuser is lying, that's who is going to prison.

[thaifarang]

Apparently you are under the impression that Thai police, prosecutors, and courts are utter idiots. The police do conduct investigations and if the accuser is lying, that's who is going to prison.

That is re-assuring!
But in that example of that traffic accident which Undaunted gave the police just told the innocent farang to pay and there was no investigation.

[Gaybutton]

That is re-assuring!
But in that example of that traffic accident which Undaunted gave the police just told the innocent farang to pay and there was no investigation

Are you actually equating how the police would handle a minor traffic accident with the seriousness of a rape accusation? That's absurd.

Many farang believe if you are accused of a felony and wind up in a Thai court, you are automatically guilty until proven innocent. It's not as simple as that. Thai courts do throw out cases if there is not enough provable supporting evidence to justify a conviction.

If you want to find a problem to be afraid of, these are the ones to think about: If you do end up in court and believe you will be convicted, the sentence is almost always cut, often by as much as half, if you plead guilty and confess to the crime. Also, if you are found not guilty, in Thailand the prosecution can appeal the case and you're right back in court trying a second time to defend your case. If the accusation involves violence, the police often take the accused back to the scene of the crime and make them reenact the crime.

If you feel a need to be afraid of something, be afraid of those.