Inheritance problems for Thai boys

[Gaybutton]

This post is a copy of the post I originally submitted on the "Frozen Thai Bank Accounts" topic. Rather than continue on the wrong topic, discussion can continue on this topic.

I wrote this in response to travlerjim1's post ( viewtopic.php?p=119021#p119021 ) with which I agree except for this issue.
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There is one big problem about keeping your money in the USA, and I imagine other countries too. That is if you have a Thai boyfriend and you intend to leave him all your assets in your will.

It has been a little more than a full year since RichLB died. He left all his money, a very large amount, to his long time Thai boyfriend. RichLB kept most of his money in the USA. Despite having a valid Thai will and an American will, along with a competent Thai attorney and a good American financial services company, his Thai boyfriend still has been unable to get any of the money. There are all kinds of complications involved, especially when it comes to international.

If RichLB had kept his money in Thailand, his boyfriend would have had it within 3 months. But now I am involved in trying to help him. So is the Thai attorney, and a close friend in the USA who is a financial wizard. We have been doing everything we can to try to get the money released, but it's a constant set of issues. Every time we get one issue resolved, more issues pop up. There seems to be no end to it.

In short, if you intend to leave your money to a Thai, make sure to have a valid Thai will and best to keep your money in a Thai bank account. That would make it easy for your Thai friend to get the money. The only reason it takes 2 or 3 months in Thailand is because that is usually how long it takes for probate to be complete.

There is often yet another problem if the Thai boy gets the money. Throughout the years I have seen several times when the Thai boy inherits a huge amount of money. But they know nothing about what they should do with the money and all too often it is gone within months and the boy winds up broke and back on the rice farm.

[Gaybutton]

Yesterday I was in, at their request, RichLB's attorney office. She said due to the complexities in the USA, she has done all she can do in Thailand and now it is necessary to hire an attorney who is within the USA and experienced in inherited assets by a foreign person. She said she has contacted two different recommended attorney offices in the USA, but they have not responded. I told her not to hold her breath. I doubt any attorney within the USA will take the case without assurance he will be paid.

The only way to assure there is enough money to make the case worthwhile to an American attorney would be to show a copy of RichLB's latest US investment statements and any other US assets. I asked her for a copy of the latest statements. She said she does not have them. She gave me the name and address of RichLB's certified public accountant in the USA. She said the CPA is who would have those statements.

Our friend in the USA is going to try to get those statements from the CPA, but we don't think there is much chance of getting them to hand them over to just anyone who asks. So, that means we're in a conundrum - we probably can't get those statements without an attorney and we may not be able to get an attorney without the statements.

It gets better. RichLB also had a sizable life insurance policy. The insurance company is stonewalling about releasing the money. They said before they can release the money to a foreign person living in a foreign country, first they have to determine that person's eligibility to receive the money.

Here are the requirements:
* Application for Retired Member Payee Survivor Benefits
* Death certificate with cause and manner of death - (We do have that - written entirely in Thai)
* Federal tax withholding election W-4P
* Tax withholding election for survivor benefits including benefits eligible for rollover (I don't even know what the hell that means)

Obviously it is slightly more complicated than you buy life insurance - you name your beneficiary - you die - now your beneficiary gets the money.

Our friend in the USA is working on trying to get all of this taken care of and finding an attorney to accept the case. We have no idea at this point what the chances are of success.

So, folks, in short if you have a Thai person you would like to leave everything to, I'd say it would be best to make sure all of the money and assets you want to leave are already in Thailand, in Thai accounts, with a Thai will, and have a Thai attorney once your time comes if you want to avoid having your beneficiary having to deal with problems like this.

Even if we manage to succeed in getting the money for our Thai friend, it's going to be quite some time before he gets it. I just hope he gets it before he has to leave it to somebody in his own will . . .

[Jun]

Our friend in the USA is going to try to get those statements from the CPA, but we don't think there is much chance of getting them to hand them over to just anyone who asks. So, that means we're in a conundrum - we probably can't get those statements without an attorney and we may not be able to get an attorney without the statements.

Surely they have to hand them over if you write to them, supplying proof that the person is deceased and the request is handled by the beneficiary of the will ?

It gets better. RichLB also had a sizable life insurance policy. The insurance company is stonewalling about releasing the money. They said before they can release the money to a foreign person living in a foreign country, first they have to determine that person's eligibility to receive the money.

Here are the requirements:
* Application for Retired Member Payee Survivor Benefits
* Death certificate with cause and manner of death - (We do have that - written entirely in Thai)
* Federal tax withholding election W-4P
* Tax withholding election for survivor benefits including benefits eligible for rollover (I don't even know what the hell that means)

Google suggests you might need a certified translation of the death certificate.

[Gaybutton]

Surely they have to hand them over if you write to them, supplying proof that the person is deceased and the request is handled by the beneficiary of the will ?

There is no "surely" about anything. We would have to ask them what constitutes proof they will accept. All we can do is try, but if they refuse, not much we can do without an attorney.

Google suggests you might need a certified translation of the death certificate.

I don't see that as too much of a problem, but we would have to find out from the insurance company whose certification they will accept.

It's all quite a challenge, which is why I hope everyone reading this who wants to leave their money and assets to a Thai person will make sure their beneficiary won't have to go through anything like this. If our Thai friend didn't have both me and our friend in the USA trying to help him, he would stand virtually no chance of ever getting so much as one baht - and I'm not so sure about his chances even with our help.

I doubt RichLB had any idea this situation was going to happen. He thought everything was going to be easily taken care of.

[Jun]

I don't yet see any roadblocks here, but perhaps you're holding something back.

I'd start by phoning the CPA myself. I'd explain the situation and ask what evidence does he require to release the documents.
Then I would attempt to collect that evidence.

But one of my faults is a tendency to have a go at almost anything.

[Gaybutton]

I'd start by phoning the CPA myself.

I wish it was as simple as you seem to think. Our friend in the USA will be doing just that unless he thinks it is better to have an attorney do it. He makes those decisions. Even if we can provide whatever evidence the CPA wants and they are willing to release the documents, that doesn't guarantee they will be willing to release them to us. I would think they would release only to an attorney or executor or whoever they deem is legally eligible to receive the documents. He will find out.

He is very knowledgeable about these kinds of things, knows how things work in the USA, and definitely knows what he is doing. He, in a way like you, does all the homework before taking any steps or "has a go". He will decide how best, with the best chance of success, to go about it.

[Dodger]

The whole purpose of a Last Will is to keep things simple and straightforward for the person(s) who you want inherit your assets when you kick the bucket.

If you have assets on both sides of the ocean that you want to leave to different people - then you create two Wills; One for your home country and one for Thailand. If anyone's confused about why you never want to leave assets in Thailand for someone residing in your home country - or vice versa - then just read this post. It's a nightmare.

[Jun]

I wish it was as simple as you seem to think. Our friend in the USA will be doing just that unless he thinks it is better to have an attorney do it. He makes those decisions. Even if we can provide whatever evidence the CPA wants and they are willing to release the documents, that doesn't guarantee they will be willing to release them to us. I would think they would release only to an attorney or executor or whoever they deem is legally eligible to receive the documents. He will find out.

He is very knowledgeable about these kinds of things, knows how things work in the USA, and definitely knows what he is doing. He, in a way like you, does all the homework before taking any steps or "has a go". He will decide how best, with the best chance of success, to go about it.

You might not like this, but I'm trying to help.

1 Getting the documents off the CPA appears to be on the critical path for this project.

2 I'd spend no more than an hour researching that part of it on the internet before calling them. With 2 pens and a notebook to hand. Possibly with some means to record the phone call.
(i) The call objective is to confirm what data they need to release the documents and to whom they can release them.
(ii) I'd start politely. However, it's pretty obvious that they have to release the documents to people handling the estate of the deceased. Which I imagine should include the executors of the will. So I'd have some firm questions lined up in case they are elusive.
(iii) If they offer any other advice, take it.
(iv) If your friend in the US isn't calling them, I'd do it myself. Hopefully they have WhatsApp (Which reminds me, I need to find myself a Skype replacement).

Dodger refers to this being a nightmare.
He's probably right, but on the basis of your posts so far, it just looks like a set of tasks to be knocked off in the correct sequence.

[Gaybutton]

I'm trying to help.

Thank you. The point of why I'm posting about this is to warn others not to fall into the same predicament. This kind of situation is simple to avoid. Any assets and money a farang wishes to leave to a Thai person should be kept within Thailand so international complications don't have to be involved.

If RichLB had done that, his Thai boyfriend would have had the money probably within a couple months. I am sure he thought he had everything in order and ready to go upon his death and had no idea any kinds of complications and delays would arise.

As for a Skype replacement, the best I've been able to find is Microsoft Teams. The one drawback is it does not support free international telephone calls to toll-free numbers as Skype did. I have not been able to find an app that does.